Persistence Versus Stubbornness Tease

Ty Cobb Backer 0:00

Episode 349. When persistence becomes stubbornness, we have a kind of a belief system that either we're gonna push you up or gonna push you out. I don't want to be around five other people that aren't pushing themselves to succeed. Success isn't about taking, but giving value first. Compensation follows contribution always. This is true. Authenticity is the truth. Every week, this is our story. We share with you our journey, we share with you our scars. Please welcome your host, Tycombacker.

Welcome And Golf Outing Support

Ty Cobb Backer 0:32

Hey, hey, hey, welcome back, everybody, to another episode of Behind a Tool Belt, episode 349. And as always, I appreciate you spending a little bit of your time with us today. Whether you're listening on your way to work, driving to a job site, sitting in the office, working out in the gym, or checking us out and catching us later on social media. I am grateful that you are here. Little house cleaning here. I want to talk about the swing for recovery golf outing. We are still looking for some foresomes and some sponsorships. There are still some sponsorship packages available. So anybody wants to sponsor whole 250 bucks. Doesn't matter. You don't have to be a part of the roofing industry or anything like that. This is really just for a good cause. Donations are welcome, are welcomed. And I want it to be as successful as it has been, but my ego and my pride wants it to be even more successful than it was the year before. So let's kick ass, take some names. If you want to come out, give us a hand, donate some money, whatever. It doesn't matter. It all matters in the end. So it does matter. Anyhow, today I think I feel like we got a banger. We got a banger every week, but I feel like I feel like today's gonna be a good one. Something that I believe we we all as human beings, as a leader, as a parent experience. And I wanna I wanna dig deep down and dive into a few things about, you know, I don't know.

Why Tough Calls Define Leaders

Ty Cobb Backer 2:34

Ego, fear, pride, things like that, decision making. So making a difficult, sorry, I kind of had a the we have a I'm listening to what I think is lightning in the background here. So we might lose power today. It's been a minute. We don't have a generator back up, but I do know right before we close the door, it was thundering and lightning and all that good stuff outside. So anyhow, today's topic is gonna be about making a difficult, you know, making difficult decisions, you know, takes takes confidence, but recognizing when that decision isn't isn't working, you know, and being able to identify that. So anyhow, so this is gonna be a good one because I think I think most leaders go through stuff like this, and and because leadership requires making decisions, right? You don't get to sit in the leader seat and avoid making calls, right? We have to make those tough decisions, we have to make those tough calls. You don't get to lead a business, a team, a family, a department, or even yourself without having to make decisions when things are unclear. Okay, okay. And sometimes the decisions you make are hard and difficult decisions that you have to make. And you don't, you don't always have the information. You don't know exactly how it's going to turn out. People may not always agree with the decision that you're gonna make, and there may be risk involved, okay. And in those moments, it takes confidence to say this is the direction we're going. Okay. Because here's the other side of leadership that that we don't always talk about enough, I think. And sometimes the decision you make doesn't work. Sometimes the plan you believe in doesn't produce the results you expected. Okay. And sometimes the person you put in that seat isn't the right fit. Sometimes the the strategy that looked good on paper doesn't work in real life. Okay. And that's that's where I think leadership can get super real, super quick, super fast, because it takes confidence. It takes confidence to make a decision, it takes humility to say, I may have gotten it wrong. And and that's what I want to talk about today. Okay. How do leaders know when to stay the course? Okay. How do we know when to change directions? And how how do we recognize when persistence quietly becomes stubbornness? Because I think I feel I feel there's a fine line between being committed and being hard-headed. There's a fine line between being loyal to the mission and being loyal to your ego. And I think there's also a fine line between pushing through resistance and ignoring reality. And and honest, and and if you're honest, most of us have have probably crossed that line before. I know I have. One of the hardest questions I think leaders have to answer is this okay. How long should you give a decision before deciding it isn't working? And I wish there was a perfect answer. Man, I wish several times over the course of the years. I wish, I wish there was a perfect, perfect answer. I wish I could say, give every decision 30 days, give, give every give every decision six months, or or give it, give it one year. Okay. But leadership doesn't work that doesn't work that way. It's not that clean. Sometimes decisions need time. Sometimes decisions need patience. Sometimes decisions need consistency before you can really before you can really judge whether they're working or not. But but other decisions show you pretty quickly that that something is off. Okay. So the question isn't just how much time has passed. I think I think the better question is is what is the what is the decision producing? Okay, because time alone doesn't fix a bad decision. I've learned that the hard way. But time can can can help a new pro, you know, sometimes time can can help a new process settle in, and time can can also help, you know, give uh time for people to adjust, you know, and time can allow momentum to build, but time does not automatically make a wrong decision right, if that makes any sense. And I think I think this is where we can get ourselves in trouble sometimes. We we tell ourselves we just need to give it more time. And sometimes that's true, but sometimes what we really mean is I don't want to admit this isn't working yet. And that's different. Okay. There's a big difference between patience and avoidance. There's a big difference between giving something time to grow and and giving giving something time to damage the organization. And this is something that I've most recently learned, I think.

Set Success Metrics Before You Commit

Ty Cobb Backer 8:25

When when when we make a decision, we need to know ahead of time what success actually is going to look like. What are we going to measure? What should be improving? What should we expect to see? What would be a warning sign? What would tell us we need to adjust? Because if we don't find those things, then we'll keep defending the decision based on emotion instead of evidence. And as leaders, you know, and leaders have we we have to be careful, okay, because once we make a decision publicly, okay, something happens inside of us, at least from my experience. We feel we feel responsible for it, we feel connected to it. We feel like if the decision fails, then maybe we failed. And then, and then when pride sneaks in, not loud pride, not ignorant pride, but quiet pride. Okay. The kind that that says I need this to work because I was the one who said it that it should work. And that kind of thinking can keep can keep us stuck longer than we should be. Okay, and that brings me to a second question. Let me get some go-go juice here. Yeah, that's good. Golden nectar. So that brings me to a second question here, okay.

The Real Line Between Grit And Pride

Ty Cobb Backer 10:09

What's the difference between staying committed and being stubborn? I think this is an important one because we don't we don't want leaders who quit early. Okay. We don't want leaders who change direction every single time something gets hard. Okay. And we don't want leaders who abandon the plan at the first sign of resistance. Leadership requires commitment, okay, grit, tenacity, all of those catchwords. They matter. Courage, okay. There are times when you have to say no, okay, we are not changing just because this got uncomfortable. There are times when the team needs you to just hold steady. There are times when the process is working, but people just don't like the discomfort of growth. Okay. And then there will be times too where when the the fruit just hasn't shown up yet, but but the roots are growing. Okay. So persistence matters, commitment matters, and consistency matters, but stubbornness is different. Okay. And if you're anything like me, a hardhead like me, persistence, persistency is like attached to purpose, and stubbornness is is attached to your pride. Persistence says we're going to keep going because this is still aligned with the mission. Okay. Stubbornness says we're going to keep going because I don't want to be wrong. Right. And this, these are the stupid conversations I've had myself personally, whether I know I'm having them with myself or not. Right. But like persistency listens to feedback. Stubbornness rejects feedback. Okay. Like we want to be able to, we persistency like reviews the numbers. And stubbornness explains, explains the numbers away, right? And then persistency like stays focused on the goal. And stubbornness just like stays focused on defending the original decision. And I think that's where I've gotten jammed up. And I think I think that's where leaders have to check themselves. Okay. Am I committed to the mission or am I committed to being right? Those are not always the same thing. You know, here at TC, you know, and really any freaking business I've that that I've been a part of, there have been moments where where we had to ask ourselves, myself personally, ask myself that question. Are we doing this because it is truly the best path forward? Or am I doing this because it was my idea? That's not always an easy question to answer, honestly. Okay, because when you own a business, when you lead people, when you are responsible for the decisions, there's a natural pressure to prove that the call you made was the right call. But but being healthy, okay, being a healthy leader, leaders have to be more committed to the outcome than they are the original opinion. That doesn't mean you become wishy-washy. That doesn't mean you change your mind every week. That doesn't mean you let every complaint redirect a company. It means you stay humble enough to let reality sink in, to let reality like speak to you. And sometimes reality says keep going. And sometimes reality says adjust. And sometimes reality says stop. It's not working. Now, why is that so freaking difficult? Why is it so freaking difficult for us to admit a decision was wrong?

Why Admitting Wrong Feels Risky

Ty Cobb Backer 14:25

And I I think I think there's I had a lot of time to think about this. I think I think there's a few reasons. Okay. I think I think I think we think it makes us look weak. Okay. We think if we reverse a decision, people will lose confidence in us. We think we think they'll say, well, you told us this was the right decision. Now you're saying something different. Do you even know what you're doing? Right? I've had that thought go through my head. And listen, I understand that fear. I get it. I totally understand it. Because people do look to leaders for direction. They want they want confidence, they want clarity, they want to know someone is steering the frickin' ship. But here's what I've learned. People don't lose trust because leaders change directions. People lose trust when a leader refuses to acknowledge reality. There's a big difference, huge difference. Your team can handle an adjustment. Your your family can handle an adjustment. But what they struggle with is when everyone can see something isn't working, but the leader keeps pretending it is. That's frustrating for both parties. That damages trust. Okay, that causes your best people to start questioning whether honest honesty even matters. Okay, because if they bring you information and you ignore it, eventually they stop bringing you the information. We kind of talked about that a little bit last week, and that's dangerous. Okay. The second reason, it's hard to admit a decision was wrong because of ego. And I know ego is one of those hard, harsh words that that us as leaders or parents don't like to hear. Nobody wants to think that they're making decisions from ego. But ego doesn't always look like ignorance. Okay. Sometimes, sometimes ego looks like overexplaining. Sometimes it looks defensive. Sometimes ego looks like needing to have the last word. Sometimes ego looks like blaming the team instead of evaluating the decision. You know, and sometimes ego looks like looks like saying they just didn't execute it right when the truth is maybe the truth is maybe like maybe we just didn't explain it clearly enough. Right. Now, execution matters. Okay. Sometimes sometimes the decision is right, but the execution was poor. I've experienced this quite a few times. Sometimes the vision is good, but the process needs tightening. Okay. Sometimes people need more training, more accountability, more clarity, or more time. Okay. But we have we have to be willing to ask both questions. Was this a bad decision, or was it a good decision that we didn't execute well? Because those require different responses. Okay. A good decision with poor execution needs coaching, clarity, accountability, consistency. Okay. A bad decision needs humility. It needs freaking ownership and a new direction. And if if if you confuse the two, you can create a lot of unnecessary pain. Okay. Third reason. Okay, before I get off track here a little bit. Third reason, it's hard to admit a decision was wrong. Okay. Maybe I was wrong. Anyhow, third reason it's hard to admit a decision was wrong is because leaders carry responsibility. Okay. When when you're leading a company, you know your decisions affect families. Okay. They affect team members, they affect customers, cash flow, culture, momentum, all of these things that we talk about all the time. It affects all of them, our decisions. Okay. That's a heavy load to carry. Okay. So when a decision doesn't work, it can feel personal. I know it does for me. It can feel heavy. We start thinking, man, I should have, I should have, I should have seen it sooner. I should have reacted quicker. Okay. I should have asked better questions. I should have listened to that person. And that's all a part of leadership growth, not just leadership. Sometimes you got to boss up and do leadership. Okay. But but we we can't let regret keep us from correction. Because the only thing worse than making the wrong decision is staying with the wrong decision after you know it's wrong. That's where damage grows. That's where frustration grows. That's where culture starts to suffer. Okay. That's where people start saying things in private that they don't feel safe saying in the room with you in it. Okay. And as leaders, we have to pay attention to that. One of the best things a leader can do is create an environment where new information is welcomed. Okay. Which brings us, I think, which brings us to another talking point.

Let New Information Change The Call

Ty Cobb Backer 20:27

How much should new information influence a decision you've made? Okay. My answer to that would be a lot. Not all information is equal. You can't change direction every time someone has an opinion. You can't change the whole strategy because one person is uncomfortable. Okay. And you can't make emotional decisions based on one bad day. But when new information is consistent, measurable, and connected to reality, you better pay attention to it. Okay. New information is not an enemy of leadership. New information can be a gift, but it gives you a chance to make a better decision. And I think sometimes I think we resist new information because they feel like it's I think we feel like it's it's like it it threatens the original decision. But new information doesn't mean you were foolish before it it may just mean you know more now than you knew then. And that I think that's I think that's growth. I think that's maturity. I think I think in a nutshell that's that's leadership, right? I I've said it I've said that. This before in different ways on this show. Okay. We have to trust by verifying. Okay. That applies here too. You make a decision, you communicate the direction, you give it a fair shot. But then we have to verify. You look at the results, you listen to the team, you watch the customer's experience, you review the numbers, you ask, is this moving us closer to the goal? And when the answer is no, you don't just double down because you're frustrated. And I just talked to Tam about this this morning. You get curious. Okay. Curiosity is one of the most underrated leadership tools. Anybody in any department, once they start losing curiosity, things start slipping through the cracks. Okay. Instead of saying, why aren't they doing what I said? Maybe we should be asking, what am I missing? What am I missing here? Okay, instead of coming at them. Right. Instead of saying they just don't get it. That's rain, isn't it? Wow. Okay. We should be asking, did I explain it clearly? Instead of saying this should be working. No, I should be asking, why isn't this working? That little shift can change everything. Stay curious, okay? But but watch how you word it. Curious leaders, curious production workers, curious whoever, okay? Look for what needs to be learned. And when you are willing to learn, you can adjust faster. Okay. Now let's talk about how changing direction looks to the team.

How To Communicate A Clean Pivot

Ty Cobb Backer 24:06

Okay. Does changing direction make a leader look uncertain or self-aware? The answer really depends on how you do it. Okay. If you change direction consistently with no explanation, yes, that can make you look uncertain. Okay. If if every week there's a new plan, a new priority, a new system, a new direction, and I'm giggling because I've I've been this guy. All right. The team never knows what matters. Okay. That creates a lot of confusion. That's not self-awareness. That's instability, actually. Okay. But when but when you can change direction with clarity, ownership, purpose, it can actually build trust. Okay. The way you communicate the change matters. You don't have to give a 45-minute speech with an apology. You don't have to beat yourself up in front of them, but you do need to own it. That's the key. Own it. Okay. You can say something like when we made this decision, and I always say we, Jana laughs at me. When I made this decision, we believe, I believe, it was the right move based on what I knew at the time. We gave it a fair shot. We reviewed the results, listened to the feedback, and looked at the impact. Based on what we know now, we're going to adjust. Here's what is changing. Here's why it matters. And here's what we're going to do next. That kind of communication doesn't make you look weak. That actually makes you look honest. It makes you look responsible. It shows the team that the mission matters more than your ego. And let me tell you something. Your best people will respect that. Your best friend, your children will respect that. Your best people don't need you to be perfect. Your kids don't need you. Your spouse don't need you to be perfect. They just need you to be honest. They need you to be clear. They need you to be willing to make the hard call. Even when the hard call is admitting the previous call wasn't working. Okay. And honestly, that's one of the marks of a mature individual. An immature individual defends. Okay. A mature leader will evaluate. Immature leader will blame. Okay. Mature leaders own that shit. Mature leaders hide from reality. I've been on both sides of that fence. And the older I get, the more, the more I lead, the more I realize that leadership is not about never being wrong. It's about being humble enough to correct the course when you are. Okay, now let me share, let me share an example here, because this is not just, this isn't just a theory, right?

A Real Example Of Waiting Too Long

Ty Cobb Backer 27:37

There have been times, there have been times in business where I believe we had the right person in the right seat or the right process in place or the right strategy for growth. And at the time, I had reasons for believing that. Most of us don't wake up and say, I think I'll make a poor decision today. We make decisions based on what we know, what we see, what we believe, and what we hope will happen. But there have been times where I started seeing signs that something wasn't working. Maybe the results weren't there, maybe the communication wasn't improving, maybe the team was feeling the pressure, maybe the numbers weren't matching the expectations. Maybe we kept having the same conversation over and over again, but nothing was changing. And I'll be honest, my first instinct wasn't always to reverse the decision. Sometimes my first instinct was just to push freaking harder, to give it one more time, okay? To to just keep pushing, to explain it again, to hope it would turn around. And sometimes that was the right thing to do. But other times, looking back, I can see that I waited too long. Not because I didn't care, not because I wasn't paying attention, but because I wanted the original decision to work. That's hard to admit, but it's true. There were moments where I had to finally say this isn't producing what we need it to produce, and defending it longer isn't helping anyone, especially myself, my mental state, my physical health, our team's health, mental state. And finally, finally, when we get to that point, we have a choice. Okay. You can protect your pride or protect the team. You can you we can keep trying to prove we were right or or we can do what is right now. And that's leadership. That's bossing up and doing leadership. Leadership is not just making the call, leadership is being responsible for the results of the call and taking ownership. Okay. And sometimes being responsible means changing directions. Now I want to be clear about something. Changing directions does not mean the original decision was stupid. This is something that I had to fathom. Okay. It doesn't mean I failed. It doesn't mean I should have known everything from the beginning. Sometimes a decision was right for a season, but wrong for the next season. Sometimes a process worked when the company was smaller, but it doesn't work as the company grew. Okay. And sometimes a person was the right fit at the right time, but not the right fit for the next stage. Okay. And sometimes the strategy worked in one market, but doesn't transfer the same way into another market. Sometimes what got you here won't get us there. And that's why leaders have to keep evaluating and growing. Growth changes everything. New information changes everything. Market conditions can change. Customer expectations change. Team capacities change. Your own leadership better be changing. And it does, and it can and it will, but it should. So the goal is not to lock yourself into every decision forever. Okay, that's my point. Things are going to change. The goal is to stay locked into the mission. If you don't have a mission, you better get one. You know, we talk a lot about our core values, our SOPs, our KPIs, and I think that applies perfectly here. Okay. Our core values help us decide what should never change. Our SOPs help us decide how the work should be done. The KPIs help us decide whether it's actually working. Those things are freaking important because if you only led from values without measuring results, you can become well intended before it's affected. Okay. If if you only lead from KPIs without values, you can become results driven but unhealthy. And if you only lead from shit, our SOPs without humility, you can become rigid, right? We need all three of them. We need all three. Values tell us who we are. SOPs give us the structure, and the KPIs tell us the truth. And when the truth shows that sometimes sometimes things aren't working, we have to pay attention. Now, let's let's bring this down to a practical level here. Okay.

Five Signs You Are Getting Stubborn

Ty Cobb Backer 33:43

How do you know when persistence is becoming stubbornness? Okay. Here's a few signs that I've identified about myself. One, one would be I stopped listening to feedback. If people bring concerns and you immediately defend, explain, or dismiss, that's a warning sign. Okay. If you keep moving the goalpost at first, you know, like at first, you said you would evaluate the decision after certain results, but then the results don't happen. You change the standard so you don't have to admit it wasn't working. Does that make any sense? Because I remember there was a time I kept making excuses and I kept moving the goalpost. Okay. And it wasn't really unrealistic. I kept moving it shorter and shorter and closer and closer, I guess I should say. Right. I would say the third thing is the team is losing energy. Okay. Not because the work is hard, but because they feel unheard. Okay. And then I would say a fourth thing would be the decision is creating more problems than it's solving. Okay. Every solution has some cost. Okay. But if the cost keeps growing and the benefit isn't showing up, we need to evaluate that. Okay. And then I would say the fifth thing would be we're more focused on explaining why the decision should work than understanding why it isn't working. And that's a big one. Okay. That's probably the one that I got hemmed up on the most. But because leaders can become, we can become really good explainers. Okay. We explain the vision, we explain the reason, we explain the intention, but at some point, results have to matter. Okay. Impact matters, culture matters. The customer experience matters. Okay. And if and if the explanation is strong, but the results are weak, we have to be willing to take a look at that. No.

Make The Next Move From Clarity

Ty Cobb Backer 36:02

I want to talk about, I want to talk, I want to talk to the the leaders listening who may be in the middle of something right now. Okay. Maybe, maybe there's a decision you made months ago. Maybe, maybe it was about a hire, a new hire, maybe it was a about a system, a role, or a marketing strategy, all of these things. Okay. Could be all of them. Maybe, hopefully it's not. Maybe it was a partnership or maybe it was a process inside your company. And deep down, okay, you're starting to wonder if it's working. Okay. But you don't want to pull the plug too early. You don't want to look inconsistent. You don't want to discourage the team. You don't want to admit you may have missed something. I get it. I really do. There's decisions, thousands upon thousands of decisions that I have to make. And all of them that I just touched on are currently decisions I'm making at this moment. Okay. But here's what I would encourage you to do. Okay. Don't make the next decision from pride. Don't make it from fear. Don't make it from embarrassment. Make it from clarity. Okay. Ask yourself, what did we believe would happen? Ask yourself, what is actually happening? What have we learned? What are the numbers telling us? What is the team experiencing? What is our customers experiencing? What is the decision costing us? What would we do if we weren't worried about being wrong? That last question is very powerful. What would we do if we weren't worried about being wrong? Because sometimes the next the right next step is obvious, but our pride makes it complicated. Sometimes the team already knows. Sometimes your gut already knows. Sometimes the numbers already know. You just have to be willing to say it out loud. And here's the encouraging, the encouraging part. Okay. When a leader owns a wrong decision the right way, it can actually strengthen the team. Okay. Because it models humility, it models accountability. It shows people that accountability is not just for the team members, but it's for leadership too. And that matters. A culture where only the team has to own their mistakes, but leadership never does, is not a healthy culture. I think as leaders, we have to go first. Okay. We can't demand ownership from others while avoiding it ourselves. If if if we want our people to say, I missed that, or I need to improve, or I made the wrong call, then they need to see us doing the same thing. Okay. Not in a dramatic way, not in a self-condemning way, but in a responsible way. And here's what I've said. I missed it. Here's what I've learned. Here's what I'm going to change. This is how we're going to move forward. I think that's healthy leadership. I think that creates self-awareness. That's how trust gets built, at least from my experience. And let's be honest, this applies way beyond business. This applies to marriage. This applies to parenting, friendship. It applies to personal habits. Sometimes we defend decisions in our personal life too, right? We defend the way that we we spend our time. We defend the way that we communicate. We defend the way that we that we uh react. We defend the way that we lead our household. We defend routines that that aren't producing the life we say that we want. Okay. And the question is the same. Am I still defending this because it's right or because it's mine? And that's a tough, tough ass freaking question. But it's a necessary one. It's a necessary question that we have to ask ourselves as a parent. Okay? Because humility is not weakness. That's something I had to learn a freaking hard way, time and time again. Humility, I'm gonna tell you what it is. Humility is strength under control. Humility says I care more about growth than comfort. Humility says I am willing to learn even when the lesson costs me something. And that is the kind of leadership people can follow. Okay. Now, here's the audience poll for this week.

Audience Poll And Final Challenge

Ty Cobb Backer 41:51

Okay. What's the hardest about changing a decision you've already made? Okay. Is it is it admitting you were wrong, knowing when to change, explaining it to your team, or starting over. Damn it, that takes a lot of energy. I want you to think about that because each one, each one hits a little differently. Okay. For some of us, the hardest part is admitting they we were wrong. That's the pride piece. Okay. For others, it's knowing when to change. That's the wisdom piece. For some of us, it's explaining it to the team, and that's the communication piece. And for others, it's starting over. That's the energy piece. Okay, because starting over can feel freaking exhausting. But sometimes starting over is better than continuing in the wrong direction. Okay. Sometimes the reset is what saves the momentum. Sometimes the the adjustment is what protects the culture, right? And then sometimes the humility to change becomes the very thing that that that moves the organization forward. Okay. So before we close out today, because I feel like I'm running out of steam here a little bit. So I want to leave you with a closing question. Is there a decision you're still defending because it's right or simply because it was yours? That question may hit happen for some of us. Or and I don't think we should, I don't think we should, I don't think we should rush to past it. Okay. Because I think I think we I think every leader has to deal with this. Okay. I think every leader has decisions that we're proud of. And I think there's decisions that we would make again. And I think every leader has decisions they have probably held on to much longer than they should have. Just remember this. The goal isn't perfection, at least for me. Okay. I would say the goal is growth. The goal is to become the kind of person who can make a decision with confidence, evaluate it with honesty, and that's the key. And adjust it with humility. Because leadership isn't about always being right. Leadership is about doing what is right. It's pretty simple. It sounded pretty simple, didn't it? It's hard as shit. And sometimes doing what is right means staying the course. But sometimes it means making a small adjustment. So don't be afraid to make adjustments. And sometimes it means turning around and saying, we're going a whole completely different freaking direction. Okay. That doesn't make us weak. That that makes us responsible. That makes us aware. That makes us trustworthy. So this week, take a look at your decisions. Okay. Not just the easy ones. Look at the ones you've been defending and ask yourself honestly: am I being persistent or am I being stubborn? Am I protecting the mission or am I protecting my pride? Am I staying committed or am I refusing to learn? That's a tough one. Those are hard questions, but hard questions make better leaders. Okay? I hope, I hope this episode challenged you, encouraged you, and maybe gave you permission to evaluate something you've been holding on to. As always, I appreciate every single freaking one of you out there listening. Please share this. I love your comments and thank you for joining the conversations week after week. Leadership is not easy. Simple, but not easy. Business is not easy. Simple, but not easy. Building a team, building a culture, building people, building yourself. None of it is easy. But it's worth it. And the best leaders are not the ones who never miss it. The best leaders are the ones who keep learning, keep pushing, keep growing, keep owning that shit, and keep moving forward. So until next time, my mofos, keep leading well, keep building people, keep doing what is right, even when it's hard. And I will see you next week.