Success Starts With Giving Value

Ty Cobb Backer 0:00

We have a a kind of a belief system that either we're gonna push you up, we're gonna push you out. I don't wanna be around five other people that aren't pushing themselves to succeed. Success isn't about taking, but giving value first. Publication follows contribution always. This is true authenticity. It's the truth every week. This is our story. We share with you our journey, we share with you our scars.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Please welcome your host, Ty Cobb Backer.

Ty Cobb Backer 0:26

We

The Leadership Need For Pushback

Ty Cobb Backer 0:27

are live. Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of Behind the Tool Belt 340 frickin' eight of these things. Today I want to talk about something that I believe every leader needs or has wrestled and struggled with. And I don't just mean business owners, I mean parents, managers, coaches, team leaders, pastors, foremans, sales managers, anyone who has had or has people looking to them for direction. I believe today's topic will hit home. I know it has for me several times. And it really, it really doesn't matter the size of your company, the size of your team, the size of the the football squad that that you're you're coaching or or anything. And I know this is something that I or I I struggled with early on through through fear and and ego and and I'm still still not perfect at it. I'm learning every single frickin' day how to be a better human being, a better father, a better coach, mentor, all of those things. And this is one of those topics that I think a lot of us try to avoid or don't know how to handle because of embarrassment or fear or whatever, whatever the case might be. A lot of times I think it might be ego, but but as leaders gain more responsibility and and authority, people can become less willing to challenge them. And I think I feel like that that can be a dangerous place to be because the higher you go in leadership, the more people may start, you know, just nodding their head, and even when they they even when they don't even fully agree, and I think the higher that you go, the more people may hesitate before telling you the truth. And and I kind of ran into a situation this week and and I thought this would be a good topic. I almost switched the topic, almost let Vic know, hey, I don't know if I want to talk about this necessarily this week, but I I got to experience it, which then reminded me of another situation. And it it it is, but it wasn't directly related to this topic, but but sometimes, you know, I wonder if we're not providing enough trust around here. But anyhow, I think I think the higher that we go sometimes, you know, and again, this doesn't pertain to just business owners. Anybody that has someone that looks up to them, I think the higher we go, the more people might might start asking themselves questions like, is it worth saying something? Will this make them mad? And I think I get that a lot. Will I look disrespectful? And I think that's something else. Will I will I lose trust? Will will this hurt my future here? Or or even like, will they think I'm not a team player? Okay, and and before long, you know, you can become surrounded by people who support you on the surface, but stop challenging, challenging, challenging you in areas where you need it most. And and let me say, let me say this up front. That's not always their fault. Okay. Sometimes that happens because of the way we respond as leaders. Sometimes we say we want honesty, but we punish honesty when it shows up. And and sometimes we say we want feedback, but but when someone gives it to us, we defend ourselves and and explain it, explain it away or shut them down. And I'm guilty of that. I know I am, I'm better than I used to be. And it's definitely something I think we all, we all, especially as parents, can't stand when our children are right sometimes, you know, in the way that they rub it in. But it's something that we get to work on. And I want to bring it to, I want to bring it to the surface here and unpack this a little bit. Sometimes we say, you know, things like we want people to speak up, but but what we really mean is is I want people to speak up as long as they agree with me. And that that is not the same thing. Okay, so today, today I want to talk about why leaders need people around them who are willing to disagree, okay, respectfully, question decisions and tell them what they may not want to hear because because leadership without honest feedback becomes dangerous. Not always, not always right, but over time it creates blind spots, okay. And that's why I think I started to pivot my thinking and and receiving, okay, more so receiving feedback. Okay, because what happens is is we we create distance, we we create weak decision making, okay, and it creates a culture where people stop bringing the truth to the table. And and and I'll tell you this the truth does not disappear just because people stop saying it out loud. It it just goes underground. It shows up in side conversations, it shows up in frustration, it shows up in turnover, in missed details, poor execution. It shows up in people saying, Well, I knew that wasn't going to work out, but nobody asked me. Okay, that is a leadership problem, okay? And today we're gonna

Why Authority Filters The Truth

Ty Cobb Backer 6:29

unpack that. Okay, so I'm gonna ask a question, and I think my first question today would be why does it become harder for people to challenge someone as their authority grows? And I think I think the the answer is pretty simple because authority, authority changes the room, okay, it changes the atmosphere, it changes how how people hear you, it changes how people approach you, it changes how much risk they feel when they disagree with you, okay. They may still feel like we may still feel like the same person, okay. You may still see yourself as approachable, and and you may also still think anybody can tell me anything, but that doesn't mean people feel feel that way, okay. When they become the owner, the manager, the leader, the person who signs the check, the person who makes the final decision, the person who decides who gets promoted, who gets opportunities, who gets more responsibility, people naturally start filtering what they say. Okay, it's a fact. And sometimes we forget that. We think, well, I'm just Ty. I'm just me. Okay. Very approachable. My door's always open. But but to someone else, you might be their boss, okay. You might be the person they don't want to disappoint, you might be the person they're trying to earn trust with. How you might be the person they're trying to prove themselves to. So so when you make a statement, they may hear it as a decision. Okay. When you share an opinion, they may hear it as direction. When when you casually say, I think we should do it this way, they may hear this is what we're doing. And and if if they disagree, they may not say anything. Not because they don't care, but because because they don't know if disagreeing is safe. Okay. That is one of the dangers, one of many dangers of leadership. The more authority you gain, the more intentional you have to be about inviting truth, trust into the room. Okay, because people are not always going to volunteer it. Okay, we have to invite it. And this is where ego can creep in. Okay. This is what I was talking about earlier: ego, fear, embarrassment. Okay. Because let's be honest, it feels good when people agree with us. Okay. It feels good when when when you say something and everyone says, Yep, that makes sense. Okay. It feels good when you walk into a meeting and people look to you for the answer. Okay. It feels good when people trust your experience. Okay. But but there's there's a difference between being respected and being insulated. Okay. There's a difference between people following your leadership and people being afraid to challenge your thinking. There's a difference between alignment and silence. As a leader, we have to know the difference. We have to learn how to identify the difference. Okay. Because silence can sound like it can sound like agreement. Okay. But sometimes silence is just fear. Sometimes silence is frustration and confusion. And sometimes silent, silent people is people thinking. Okay. I've I've tried to speak up, you know, people people saying like, I've tried to speak up before, and it didn't go well. So I'm not I'm not doing that again. That should that should concern all of us. That should concern all of us parents. That that should concern all of us leaders because the moment people stop telling you what they really think, you are no longer leading with all the information that we need. Okay. You are leading with a filtered version of reality. And filtered, filtered reality leads to poor decision making. Okay. Now, the next thing we have to talk about is this.

Disrespect Versus Healthy Disagreement

Ty Cobb Backer 11:20

Okay. What's the difference between disrespect? Because I think this is the very, very, very valid point here. Okay. The difference between disrespect and healthy disagreement, and this works on both sides of the fence, because this is super important. And I'm not saying leaders should allow disrespect and vice versa. Okay. I'm not saying every opinion should go carry some sort of weight. And I'm not saying that a team should be able to argue every decision into the ground, especially publicly. Okay. That's not leadership either. Okay. There is such a thing as unhealthy disagreement. Okay. Especially when you know that person's just lazy. Okay. There is such a thing as complaining. There is such a thing as gossip. There is such a thing as people challenging authority with the wrong intention, with the wrong heart, with the wrong tone and the wrong motive. Okay. But healthy, healthy disagreement is different. Okay. Healthy, healthy disagreement says, I respect you, but I I see this differently. Okay. Healthy disagreement says, I know this is your decision, but I think there may be something we're missing. Okay. Healthy healthy disagreement says I can push back on that for a second. Okay. And and you know, so there's different there's different forms that you know but those are very different than disrespect. Okay. Disrespect attacks the person. Healthy disagreement challenges the idea. Disrespect tries to embarrass. Healthy disagreement tries to improve. Okay. And and disrespect creates division. Okay. I've seen a room get divided super quick. And healthy disagreement creates clarity, okay, for the whole room, not just the leader. And disrespect says, you're wrong, I'm right, I'm going to make you look bad. Healthy disagreement says, I may be wrong, but I think we need to talk through this. Okay. Those are two totally different things. Two totally different conversations. And as a leader, we need to be mature enough, okay, to be able to not to not label every challenge as disrespect. And a lot of times for me, it really depends upon where I'm at, what headspace am I in. What, what, you know, do I have something that I feel like I need to prove? Okay. Or am I in a good place and am I open? You know, and and keeping open-minded is is one of the biggest challenges I think I've ever faced in being in the position that I'm in because sometimes, sometimes we just do that. We shut down. But but someone who questions decisions, okay, we immediately feel defensive. That is just our built-in mechanism. Okay. Someone sees a flaw in the plan and we think you're being negative. Okay. Someone brings up a concern and we think they're resisting change. Someone says, like, I don't think this is going to work. And instead of listening, we start, we start preparing our argument. Okay. Like they just stop thinking, I've done it. I'll stop, I'll stop listening. Okay. And I'm already thinking, right? And I'm I do that anyhow, anytime when someone's thinking, anyhow, I'll stop listening and I'll start thinking about what I want to say next. And it's super annoying because I I can see when someone does that to me. But anyhow, that's a different topic for a different show. But but what if they're not being negative? Okay. What if I'm not being negative? What if they're being responsible? Okay. And what if they care enough to risk an uncomfortable conversation? What if they see something I don't see or you don't see? What if they're trying to protect the company, the customer, the team, or shit, even me? Okay. That changes how we receive it. Okay. One of the greatest mistakes a leader can make is confusing loyalty with agreement. Loyal people do not always agree with you. Okay. Sometimes the most loyal person in the room is the one willing to tell you, I don't think this is right. Okay. That person may be protecting you from a blind spot. That person may be protecting the culture. Okay. And that person shit might be protecting our reputation. Okay. The future of the company. But if you only value the people who agree with you, okay, you will push away the people who are willing to sharpen you. Okay. And let me tell you something. I've learned the hard way. Okay. A leader who cannot be challenged cannot be trusted with growth for long. Okay. Because growth requires correction. Growth requires feedback. Humility requires other people seeing what you cannot see. Okay. And if if you're always the smartest person in the room, you are always probably the wrong, you're probably always in the wrong room. Okay. Or or you have trained the room to stop being honest. Neither one is good. Okay. Now let's talk about the culture side of this. Okay.

Building Trust Through Your Reactions

Ty Cobb Backer 17:16

How does a leader create an environment where people feel safe speaking honestly? Okay. It starts with how we respond. Okay. Because I've I've got the to to witness this on the other side of it. And it was like, ooh, one of those moments where, like, damn it, do I look like that? Do I make people feel like that? Guilty. So it starts with our response. Chuck was trying to call me. If anyone is out there in Chuck E. Cheeses Land, let him know that we're doing a podcast right now. Anyhow. It starts with how we respond. Not not necessarily what we say, but how we react. Okay? Because every leader says they want honesty. Every leader says, we want feedback. Okay? A door is always open. But an open door means nothing. And I mean means nothing if people get punished when they walk through it. People do not judge safety by your statements. They judge safety by your reactions. They watch your face. They watch your tone. They watch what happens after someone disagrees with you. They watch whether you listen or interrupt. They watch whether you ask questions or defend yourself. They watch whether you change your mind when new information is presented. They watch whether the person who spoke up gets treated differently afterwards. And then they learn from that. Okay. Culture is not built in a big speech. Okay. Culture, culture is built in in the small moments. Right? Is it in the small moment after someone someone tells you something uncomfortable? Okay. That is where safety is built. Okay. For example, when someone says, I don't think this plan is going to work, we have a choice. We can either say, Well, this is what we're doing, or we can say, Tell me what you're thinking, what you're thinking. What how do you see it? That one sentence changes the room. Tell me what you're seeing. That tells people I'm listening. What are your thoughts? What do you think? You decide. It does not mean you automatically agree. It does not mean that they get to make the final decision. It does not mean the plan changes immediately, but it but it communicates that that that truth is welcomed here. And another power powerful question is this what am I missing? That question is huge because it acknowledges that you do not see everything. Okay. And that is a sign of strength, not weakness. And that's something I had to learn the hard hard way as well. A weak leader has to pretend they already know. I've seen it, I've watched it, and people, and it it is, it's it's a sign of weakness, and you just look weak. A strong leader is secure enough. Okay, that was the word I was looking for earlier. Secure, okay, enough to ask, what am I missing? Another one is where where do you think this could go wrong? Where do you think this could go wrong? That question gives people permission to think critically. Okay. That's good coaching. That's what that is. That's good leadership. Because here's the thing if people only bring you the positives, and I'm guilty of this. Like Chuck, you're not allowed to tell me anything bad. Only good news today. Okay. Now, he still brings me bad news. All right. He's not afraid to do that. Chuck's a good one that will tell me exactly what's going on and what needs to happen. But because here's the thing if people only brought us the positive things, you are not getting the full picture. Okay. And that's something I know I can get from Glenn. I know I can get from Vic. I know I can get from Chuck because every plan has a risk. Okay. Every decision has a trade off. Every strategy has weak spots. Okay. And I know this all from experience and falling straight on my frickin' face. And it is better to discover those weak spots, okay, in a meeting than in an and then and then in the field. Okay. I'd much rather try to figure it out in the boardroom, okay, collaboratively, than going out in the field and falling on our faces, or with a customer, or after money, tons of money have have been spent. Okay. After trust has been damaged, or after the team has already gotten frustrated over something, right? So creating a trusting environment does not mean creating a soft environment. So let's just be clear on that. And that's very important. Okay. Safety does not mean there is no accountability. Safety does not mean people can say whatever they want, however they want to say it. Safety means people can bring truth to the table without fear of being attacked or embarrassed, ignored, or punished. Okay. And that, my friend, is a strong culture. At TC Backer, we talk about a lot about our core values, our SOPs, our KPIs, and all of those things matter so much. Core values tell us who we are. Okay. SOPs tell us how we do things, and KPIs tell us if we're winning or losing or not. But if nobody feels safe enough to say this SOP isn't working, or the KPI is driving the wrong behaviors, or or we are not living this core value right now, then those tools can become empty. Okay. The paper may say one thing, the culture may say another. And culture always wins. So as leaders, we have to keep asking, are people telling me the truth or are they telling me what they think I want to hear? Okay. And that that is a leadership question. All right. And sometimes the answer may be very freaking uncomfortable. So it's a mouthful. It's such a great topic. David, Bruno, Peter. Where'd Pete go? Kim? Good to see you guys. So now I want to bring in today's audience poll.

How Safe Is It To Disagree

Ty Cobb Backer 24:40

Okay. And I want you, I want you to really think about this one. Okay. How comfortable are you telling your leader you think they're wrong? Okay. Very uncomfortable. Depends on the situation. Rarely comfortable or never. Okay. And I would like to think, I think I fall into it depends on the situation. Okay. And I think a lot of people feel that way when they come to approach me. It depends on depends on the situation. However, I am getting better. Now, I want you to answer the question honestly, not how you think you should answer it. Answer it honestly. Okay. How comfortable are you telling your leader you think they're wrong? And as leaders, I want you to flip that question around. How comfortable do you think your people are telling you something or telling you that you're wrong? Okay. Because that's a different question. I see old Brad Whitlock on there. Fairly comfortable. Good. That's a good thing. Situational, pick the battles. There you go. Nothing, nothing wrong. No wrong answer. Okay. Because we may think people are comfortable, but are they? I don't know. Do they challenge you in meetings? Do they ask clarifying questions? Do they bring concerns early? Do do they tell you when a decision doesn't make sense? Do they tell you when something is not working? You know, or or do you usually find hmm? Do you usually find out after the fact? And that's one of those situations that happened to me this week. And I I just think I don't think it was because anybody was afraid to approach me about it. Maybe. Maybe not. I think that was where the crap, I just had it on the tip of my tongue. That is where the decentralized command, I think we found a gap in our decent decentralized command. So anyhow, back back to the back to the topic here. Because if we're always finding out after the fact, right? We may we may have a communication problem. And I and I think that's where I found something out this week. So you may we may have a trust problem, okay? We may have a culture problem. We may have a leadership problem, okay. And I'd like to think that we don't 90% of the time here, but we probably have a little more than that. But it but and I and I say I say that with love because I've had to look in the mirror on this myself a lot. Okay. So so let's let's go to the next talking point, I think.

Echo Chambers And Growing Blind Spots

Ty Cobb Backer 27:43

Okay. So what happens what happens when everyone around a leader starts agreeing with them? Okay. At first it feels, I think, efficient. Meetings are are easier, decisions happen faster, nobody's pushing back, no one's slowing us down. Everyone says, sounds good. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. But over time, something dangerous happens. We lose friction, and friction is not always bad. Okay, friction can sharpen, it can re it can reveal things, it can slow down the process long enough to avoid a bad decision. Friction can can force us to explain our thinking, right? And and friction can expose assumption. Shit, sometimes friction can make the final decision stronger. And I guess that's the whole point of this, right? When when everyone, everybody agrees you may move faster, but but you may be moving faster in the wrong direction. Ben there did that, still probably freaking doing it. But and that's not progress, okay? That is essentially, I think, momentum without wisdom. Okay. When when nobody challenges the leader, blind spots grow. And I know I have a lot of blind spots. The leader starts believing their own press, I guess. The leader starts thinking, I must be right because nobody is pushing back. But but the absence of pushback is not proof that we're right. It may be proof that people have stopped trying. Okay. And that quite frankly is scary. Because now the leader is making decisions inside an echo chamber, which I actually feel like I'm in one right now. And an echo chamber is is dangerous because they repeat, they repeat your thoughts back to you and and and make them sound more certain than they really are. We say stuff like, I think this is the move. Room says, yes, right? And you say, I knew it, but did anyone actually challenge it? I don't think so. Did anyone test it? Did anyone bring a different angle? Did anyone speak for the customer? Did anyone speak for the team in the field? So on and so forth. And did anyone speak for the person who is going to have to have to execute the decision on a rainy Thursday afternoon, then everything is already freaking behind? It just, I mean, it goes on and on and on because sometimes the decision sounds great in the conference room, but falls apart in the real world out in the field, right? And people, the people closest to the real world often see the problems first. That's why leaders need input from different levels. I mean, and that is the most important part right there. The person answering the phone may not may know something the owner doesn't know. Happens all the time. The person installing the roof may see something the sales team didn't see. The person handling billing may know where the process is breaking down. So that's why I have to ask questions and not be on the defensive, you know, every time I get pushback on something because I'm not doing it every day anymore. Okay. We need people around us who are close enough to the work to tell you what is really happening. And you need to be humble enough to listen. And that's probably where I've struggled the most with this because when everyone agrees, problems get hidden. Okay, and hidden problems grow. Then one day the leader says, We say, Why didn't anyone tell us? And the honest answer might be, they tried. You didn't listen. I got offensive. We moved too fast. You already made your mind up. I've heard, I've heard all this stuff.

How To Handle Being Challenged

Ty Cobb Backer 32:03

So what should a leader do when someone challenges the decision? Okay, and this is the thing, this is the part here that we get to work on. It's a skill. We get to work on it, we can improve on it. It's a skill. And from my experience, first I pause, especially when I'm in a bad headspace and I don't want to take anybody's shit. Okay, a pause. That sounds simple, right? But it's not, it's not always easy to just pause, okay, because when someone challenges us, especially publicly, our first instinct may be to be on the defensive, okay. We want to explain ourselves, we want to correct, we want to protect our authority, okay? We want to make sure people know we already thought about that, okay? But the first move of a mature leader in a good headspace is not defense, it's curiosity. Aha. We pause, we take a breath. Tell me more. What are you concerned about? What do you think we're missing? What would you recommend? What have you seen that leads you to that conclusion? Those questions do two things. Okay. First, they help us understand whether the challenge is valid. Okay. Second, they teach the room that disagreement is allowed when it is handled the right way. And that matters, believe me, on both sides of the fence, because people are always learning how honest they're allowed to be. The second thing a leader should do is separate separate emotion from information. Okay. I know that's a hard one, especially for me. Sometimes the way feedback comes to you is not perfect. Sometimes the timing is not perfect, sometimes the tone is not perfect, sometimes the person is nervous, and sometimes they stumble through it, okay? And sometimes they're frustrated because they care, right? Now that does not mean we ignore disrespect, okay? But it does mean we should not miss valuable information just because the delivery was imperfect. Okay. There have been times in my life where someone brought me something and it didn't like the way it was said. But after after I got past my pride, I had to admit there were there was truth in it. And that is leadership maturity. If I can just give myself a second to actually hear what they said and not how they said it, okay. Can I receive the truth even when it is uncomfortable? Can I learn from feedback even when it bruises my ego? Just a little bit. Can I value the message without getting stuck on the delivery? That's the big question. It's not easy, but it is necessary. Okay. The third thing is to be willing to explain our decisions without shutting people down. Okay. Sometimes someone will challenge a decision, and after listening, you may still move forward. It's just going to happen. Okay. And that's okay. Leadership is not a democracy on every decision. We can listen to input and still make the call. But when when possible, we need to explain why. Say, I hear your concern. Here's why I still believe this is the direction we need to go. Or that's a valid point. We're going to move forward, but let's put a checkpoint in place, excuse me, in place so we can monitor the risk. Or simply say, I appreciate you bringing that up. Okay. I'm not changing my decision today, but I want you to keep speaking up. That last part matters. I want you to keep speaking up. Because if people, if if someone, if someone challenges you and you move forward anyway, they may think, well, that didn't matter. Okay. So remind them that it did matter. Their input may not be changed, may not change my decision today, but it may have improved how I made my decision to execute something. Okay. That happens a lot. Shit, it has added safeguards already. It's done a lot. It may have helped the team understand why. But not every challenge changes the decision, I guess is my point. But healthy, healthy challenges should make the decision better. Pete, you're always wrong. Okay. I'm just kidding. I love you, Pete. Peter. What did he say? I found I found that a lot of times I may not have all the information when making a suggestion. That's a good that's good, Peter. Thanks for chiming in, buddy. Always. So anyhow, fourth thing. Let's come up with a fourth thing. When when you're wrong, say you're wrong. Very important. Okay? Don't dance around it. Don't spin it. Don't blame it on the team. Don't say, well, what I meant was no, just say, you're right. I missed that. And that's powerful. You know, as a leader who can admit when they are wrong becomes more trustworthy, not less trustworthy. Okay. I know some leaders are afraid of that. I know they are. I watch it. I am too sometimes. They think if I admit I was wrong, people will lose respect for me. I think, I think the opposite is true. People do not expect leaders to be perfect. Okay. They they expect us to be honest, own it, learn from it, adjust. Okay. The leader who can say I missed that is a leader who can who can be followed. Okay. Because now the team knows the mission matters more than the ego. And that's freaking huge. Now I want I wanna I wanna think I want to share a personal example. And I'm gonna keep it broad because it's not about calling anybody out on this, but there have been times over the years where someone told me I was wrong. And they were right. Okay. One that stands out is around process and communication. You know, as the company grew, I would sometimes think something was clear. And I would think that something was clearer because it was clear in my head. I'm gonna see if I can say this right. I knew, I knew where we were going, and I knew what the standard was, and I knew what I expected. I knew what the customer experience should feel like. I knew what follow-up should look like, and I knew what accountability should look like. But here was the problem. Just because it was clear to me in my head did not mean it was clear to everyone else. Okay. And I remember someone basically saying, Ty, this isn't as clear as you think it is. Now, I'll be honest, my first reaction inside was was not perfect. Okay. Because when you care deeply about the company, when when when you're working hard, when you're trying to lead well, when you're carrying responsibility, it it can be easy to hear that as like criticism. I can feel that. Okay. What do you mean it's not clear? I mean, I've I said, what do you mean it's not clear? I've said this. We've talked about this. I know, I know what we're trying to do. You know, like, and this is me having the conversation in my freaking head, you know, with this other person. But when I slow down and I listen, I realize they were right. Okay, I wasn't clear enough. And we've talked about this before. I think I used the cemetery over there as an example before where I would send someone over to the cemetery, but I wouldn't tell them what they needed to take and what the whole point was. I was just like, no the grass. And they would take a weed eater or something because I didn't explain to them exactly what needed to be done. And that's something, one of my character defects or shortcomings of mine that I've identified that I need to be able to explain myself a little more thorough because what I think might be trivial may not be trivial to everyone else. Because this is the thing. The issue was not that people didn't care, the issue was not that people didn't want to do a good job. The issue was that it wasn't obvious to me that I wasn't thorough enough. I didn't have it documented enough. I didn't train well enough. I didn't repeat it enough, you know. And sometimes I need to just slow down and and know that they may not understand what it is and allow them to ask questions because and I think that's where the problem lied. You know what I mean? Like, because I I I would be moving so fast, I don't have time. You need to listen to every word I say, and you need to read my mind. You need to learn how to read my mind, literally, and that's not a people issue, that's a leadership issue. So we need to get feedback from our team, okay? Make sure that we are reinforcing, you know, making sure our SOPs are documented, our KPIs are documented, that we're reinforcing, you know, we we started reading our mission statement in at least one core value. I would say at 90% of our meetings. Why? Not just because I enjoy hearing them, or I'm a control freak, and I want people to listen or read the mission statement in a core value, but I also want them to express or share with us where they have seen our core values in action, whether it be in the office, out in the field, because that's reinforcing, okay, our culture. That's reinforcing and making it clear because the first time you may have heard it, you may not have understood it. But then when someone gives you an example of it, okay, you're like, aha, light bulb moment. And we just literally, literally revamped them. I made them, I stripped them down with my help from with help from Tony. Tony actually came up here. Big shout out, Tony, everyone. Did you get to meet Tony Beck? Okay. All right. Tony up. Leadership. It's crazy. Never stop learning, right? But leadership is about what people leadership is about what people heard, understood, and executed. And that can be humbling. Okay. But but it made us better. And I'm grateful for people who are willing to say things like that. You know? Because they could have stayed quiet, they could have complained to someone else. They could have left the meeting frustrated. But instead, they cared enough to challenge me. And that's a gift. It may not feel like a gift in the moment, but it is. And leaders, we have to learn to recognize that the person who tells you the truth is not always your problem. Sometimes they are the person trying to help you solve the problem. This all also connects to something that I think about a lot in leadership.

Setting Standards That Welcome Truth

Ty Cobb Backer 45:42

You know, the standard you walk past is the standard you accept. And I just talked about that yesterday in one of our meetings. There was just something I couldn't walk past because we are only as good as what we walk past. And that applies here too. If people bring honest concerns and we walk past them, we are setting a standard. Okay. If people challenge us respectfully and we shut them down, we are setting a standard. If someone tells us something uncomfortable and we punish them for it, we are setting a standard. And that standard says, do not speak honestly. But if someone challenges us respectfully, and I'm going to emphasize and put in quotes, respectfully, and listen, we are setting a standard, a different standard. Okay. If someone tells us we miss something and we say, thank you for bringing that to my attention, we are setting a different standard. If someone disagrees and we stay calm, ask questions, and focus on the mission, we are setting a different standard. That standard says truth is welcomed here. That is a different kind of culture I want. Okay. Not a culture where everyone agrees with me, not a culture where we are aligned around. I want a culture that where we are aligned around the mission, a culture where people can challenge ideas without attacking people. A culture where accountability, and this is important, doesn't mean pizza frickin' party every freaking day. Okay. A culture where accountability and humility can live in the same room. And that's big. That is a daily awareness and a daily struggle, a daily fight, a daily something that we need to work on. It's bringing a culture where accountability and humility can live in the same space. Okay. A culture where people care enough to speak up. A culture where where the best idea can win, even if it didn't come from the person with the biggest mouth or title. Okay. That is healthy leadership. And here's a here's another thing. You cannot wait until, right? Until until a cr we we can't wait until a crisis to find out whether people will tell us the truth. Okay. I hate when that happens. We have to build, we have to build this culture before a crisis happens, right? We you we have to invite feedback when things are going well, okay? And we have to question before the decision is final. Because if people do not, if if people don't feel like they trust you enough to tell you the small truth, okay, because I don't want to keep saying safe, the safe space, because it's not. It is, but it's not, you know what I'm saying? For those of you that know we didn't create a safe space. Okay. But we created a a space of trust, okay, where the truth can can be spoken. And it may not always be received very well, but know this within five minutes, for me personally, I'll come back and I'll say, you're right. You're right. Let's go with that idea. Okay, but I have definitely gotten better about you know a lot of that stuff. So the cool thing is, is we get to practice this, you know, on a daily basis. I we don't have to be perfect. I am not saying that after this podcast, every person in this building needs to be perfect at this. I'm saying give it five minutes, digest it, and come back and let's talk about it again. Okay. And I'll promise you that I'll do the same thing too if I disagree. But there are gonna be moments where it's like, nope, this is what this is the way it is, and not everyone is going. And this is where I think people, leaders, parents get hemmed up. Not everyone's gonna agree with our decisions. Okay. Heavy is the head that wears the crown at times, but sometimes we have to make decisions that will protect the herd, you know, and that's the position I have put myself in. That is the position that I was put in today, is to protect the herd, to protect a majority. Sometimes we have to lose the 1% in order to save the 99%. And it's not always easy making those decisions, okay? But I can tell you this the more consistently I work on these things, the better I do get at them. And I'm not perfect at them every single day. But but at the end of the day, as long as I'm a little bit better than I was yesterday, then that's a win. So, anyhow, back on topic here. I think. What tower are we talking about? What are we talking about today? No, it's a good topic. It's a good one. All right, I'm gonna wrap up here a little bit. I swear to you. How long have we been on here? 51 minutes. It's a long one for us. All right. I'm gonna talk maybe just a little bit about pride. Sometimes pride, okay, pride looks sometimes pride looks like it looks it looks like always, you know, when I'm prideful, a lot of times my pride will get in the way. And ego, fear, and I think that's why we get defensive on on this topic here. And and I'm I don't want to lead that way. But leadership is is not about being comfortable or protecting our comfort zone, right? It's very uncomfortable at times for all of us. Conversations like this can be very uncomfortable. Leadership is is about serving the mission and developing the people that people who entrusted in us, and and part of that is is giving people permission to tell us what we may not want to hear. So we have to put down the ego, we have to put down the pride. And now I'm not saying everyone gets equal access to speak into every area of our life either. Okay. Now that's where wisdom comes in. All right, not everybody has earned that voice. All right. So I'm not going back on everything that I said, but I'm just trying to be very clear that not everybody gets that voice. Not everyone has the right motives, not everyone has the maturity, and not everyone has the full context, okay? But every leader needs a few people who have that permission, okay, to push back. People who can that we can trust to say, hey, you're off. You need to apologize. You move too fast, you're avoiding the hard conversation, you're you're letting the standard slide, you're making this about you, not the mission. And I've had people tell me that stuff. Now, would I want that coming from everybody? No. No. But could Vic tell me that or Jana or Glenn? Absolutely. Have they? Of course they have. But they know how to approach me too when it when it's a very difficult conversation like that. And those people are valuable, okay? And you better know who they are. Because if you don't, if you don't have anyone in your life who can tell you the truth, I don't know, you're going to be living a really blind life. I don't care how successful you are, I don't care how much experience you have. I don't, I don't care how many people report to you. You need truth tellers. You need people who love you enough, respect you enough, and believe in the mission enough to tell you what you might not want to hear. And you need the humility to receive it. That's the biggest part. Now, let me talk about our team members here for a minute, because healthy disagreement is is not just the leader's responsibility. How you challenge matters. Okay. If if you want your voice to be heard, bring solutions, not complaints. Bring facts, not feelings. Bring the concern to the right person, not just, not just into like the kitchen or the break room. Bring it with respect. Bring it with the mission in mind. There's a way to say, I disagree, that builds trust. And there's a way to say, I disagree that damages trust. And a good phrase is I can offer a different perspective. That's that's respectful. Another one is I may not have all the information here, but what but but here's what I see that shows humility. Okay. Healthy disagreement does not mean you get your way. I want to make that clear. It doesn't mean you always get your way, it means you cared enough to speak up before the decision was made. And then once the decision is made, unless it violates values or ethics, you support it. And that's that's huge. That's that's important because disagreement should lead to clarity, not division. Okay. Strong teams can disagree. I've watched it, it's healthy. And meetings and and leave aligned, okay. Weak teams agree in the meeting and disagree in the hallway. And I can't stand that. And I don't want that. Okay. I want the truth in the room. Okay. I want the hard conversations where it can actually help. I want people to speak up while we still have time to adjust. Okay. That's what strong teams do. So let's bring this thing home. Okay.

The Question Every Leader Must Ask

Ty Cobb Backer 56:33

Closing question for today. All right. Who in your life or organization has permission to tell you something you don't want to hear? Okay. Really think about that. All right. Who has permission? Not who do you say has permission? Who actually has permission? Who can challenge you and know the relationship is still safe? Okay. Who can tell you that your your tone was off? Who can tell you that your decision doesn't match the values? Who can tell you that your team is confused? Okay. I've had that question asked to me, right? Have you told them? You know, because this is the thing. Have you actually told them they have permission? Because sometimes we assume people know, but they may not know. Like, dude, you have permission to tell me if I'm wrong. Okay. I need you to tell me that something is off. Okay. We may need to say, I'm asking you to challenge me if you see something that doesn't make sense. You may need to say, if you think I'm wrong, I want you to bring it to me directly. Okay. Because permission is not given once, right? So we may have to tell them a couple times. Permission is reinforced by response. Okay. Every time someone speaks up, your response either increases trust or decreases it every freaking time. So this week, I want to challenge you. Ask someone you trust, what is something you think I need to hear that I may not want to hear? Then be quiet. Don't defend. Don't explain. Don't explain. Don't interrupt. Just listen. Ask questions, thank them, think about it, and then decide what you need to do with it. Because the kind of feedback may be the very thing that helps you grow. It may be the thing that protects your team. It may be the thing that that saves your relationship. It may be the thing that makes you a better leader. And I'll say it again: the leader who cannot be challenged cannot be trusted with growth for long. But the leader who welcomes truth, who listens with humility, who can admit when they are wrong, and who surrounds themselves with people who are willing to speak honestly, that leader has a chance to build something healthy, not perfect, healthy. And healthy leadership creates healthy teams. Healthy teams create better customer experiences. And trust is what allows businesses, families, and organizations to grow the right way. So as we close out, episode 348 of Behind a Tool Belt. Remember this. You do not need people around you who just tell you what you want to hear. You need people who care enough to tell you the truth. Okay. You need people who will challenge the decision before the customer pays the price. Okay. You need people who will speak up before a small issue becomes a big issue. And as leaders, we need to be, we need to be the kind of people who can receive that. Okay. So here's the final question. One more. One more time. Who in your life, who in your life or organization has permission to tell you something you don't want to hear? And maybe this week you need to go thank that person. Maybe you need to invite them. Maybe you need to invite that person to be closer. Maybe you need to apologize to someone you shut down. Maybe you need to reopen a conversation. Okay. That's where growth begins. And thank you for joining us for another episode of Behind the Tool Belt. If this episode hit home, please share it, like it, comment, whatever you guys got to do, and all that good stuff. Drop your answers in the inbox in here. Shit, hit me in my private messenger, wherever, because leadership gets better when truth is welcomed. And as always, keep building, keep leading, keep growing. This has been Behind the Tool Belt, and we will see you next week.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:23

Thanks to our sponsors, TC Backer Construction, Hook Roofing Marketing, Roofal, and Project Map It. And thank you for watching. Subscribe to our YouTube channel and follow us on Facebook. We are streaming on all major platforms. See you next week for another episode of Behind the Tool Belt.