Ty Cobb Backer: 0:00

And we are live. Welcome back, everybody, to Beyond Tool Belt episode 308. I am your host, Ty Facker, and thank you for joining us again on this Wednesday edition. We will be back after our short intro from our sponsors.com back to down the point of the toys. No filter. No truth. Just the crypto. Please welcome your host of behind the toolbelt. Hey, hello, welcome back to everybody to behind the toolbell episode 308. I am your host. Today we have another returning guest, actually, someone that I not only respect, but had the chance to hang out with him the other night at an amazing networking event that I guess you co-hosted, marketed, pushed it. Um, and he owns a marketing consulting business, and he is the host of a podcast himself called Shift Schiff Bar, right? Shift. I used to get that shift bauer on the rocks. I think I said it to myself one too many times the wrong way, probably.

Paul Schiffbauer: 1:36

I always myself out. I remember when I first on we were play-on words in like ship bauer, ship builder.

Ty Cobb Backer: 1:42

Yeah, that's right. Ship bauer. That's right. That's right. But but anyhow, uh, you're doing some big things, man, in the marketing space and and helping businesses sharpen their message and elevating their brand presence and and get real results. I've watched it, I know people that you work for, and uh, you know, you're you're the real deal. And uh so today we're gonna probably dive into a lot of that and what's working today and and in today's market and how businesses can build awareness and the right way, I guess, and how companies can stand out in a crowded digital world. So, Paul, how you doing, buddy? I'm doing great.

Paul Schiffbauer: 2:20

You know, it's a Wednesday hump day, it's a little rainy where we're at, because I know you're on the other side of the county recording, yeah, but um happy to be here, man. When yeah, I ran into you, super organic, hadn't seen you in a while either. That's a crazy thing, just because of life, you know. Yeah, um, and you're like, you want to come on the show coming up? I'm like, yeah, split snack and I'm like, let's do it, it'll be fun.

Ty Cobb Backer: 2:45

Yeah, you didn't hesitate, that's for sure. No, it's good, it was good to see you. And like you said, I haven't seen you for a while. But we were doing a lot of traveling, you know. We weren't, you know, we'd come into town for a day or two, sometimes a week, and then we'd go back out on the road and between uh expansion with uh TC Backer and then taking the the podcast on the road there for a while. And and this season, because right now it's it's roofing convention season. This season we decided to just focus locally. We wanted to stay local and and you know, bring local people back on the show, kind of like it used to be get back to our grassroots and stuff. And when so when I saw you, it was like perfect timing because you were, you know, shit three and a half years ago. We're actually coming up on six years, but I feel like you were still one of the early adopters, you know, one of our earlier, you know, guests and in studio guests. You're probably like one of the first in studio guests that we had. And uh so it's it's pretty cool for us to be able to catch up and and uh you know, you know, see where you're at today. And and uh do you know catch some of your stuff on social? But but but first off, man, I I want to say what what a great job that you guys did the other night on that event. Um, and I guess if I had a question for you, my first question for you would be what what inspired you to to want to get you know into that type of networking environment?

Paul Schiffbauer: 4:08

Oh, that's a great question. So it's a little twofold. So just in general um time for those checking this out, maybe live or at a later date. Um to me, marketing is about community at the end of the day. If I say one word, it's communal. And people might think, marketing is not community. Well, it is at the end of the day, you know, you're connecting with folks, demonstrating value or showcasing certain features, whatever your product, service, or brand might be, and it's that connection point. That's what community is at the end of the day. It doesn't have to be a necessary digital ad, it's you know, real life and in-person, like us running into each other. Um, and ironically, and we're a digital marketing focused consultancy, but I've gotten most of my business generated to date, doing this about seven and a half years full time, just doing good work, meeting people in person. Old school, man. It's that communal aspect. But to answer your question about doing an event on that scale, um, I've done a couple like micro events of my own throughout the years. I've done kind of collabs like you saw with integrity first home buyers with different like business associations, like um by local coalitions, a good local one um in South Central PA. But um it was really funny and organic how that came about. Um, Matthew Toth, business development specialist over integrity. Um, we got lunch right at the beginning of October, and we're just kind of this networking, man. What are your goals? What are vice versa? What are you doing for your business at integrity for those guys? And what am I building over here? And um, I told him I have a big desire just to do kind of more events on a larger scale, like I've done them in the past, but like moving into 2026, and he sits for a second. I remember I'll be eating our crab cake at White Rose Barn Grill, and he's like, Do you want to um help me partner up on this event? So I'm like, what do you mean by partner? You know, if you need a one of the sponsored table, he's like, No, no, no, no, partner. Like, really put your name on it, push, promote it, co-host it. Sat for a second, just like I sat looking at you or stood looking at you. I'm in. Let's do it. Because to me, it just would be beneficial to all parties involved and just the community at large is I could bring some people in my network who might not be familiar with the kind of events integrity is hosted and um what they kind of want to do long term in their respective network. Um, we were talking kind of pre-call. It seemed like a hit for you know, just the general attendee where that might have been really their first kind of like evening networking event, um, seminar. And then, you know, folks like you and some of the other like uh partners were you know, they were there present, having tables, representing their businesses, where there's a lot of shared value, and I think there's a lot of shared tension. And um, I told Matthew while planning it, the timing's perfect because having a networking event about networking, that's essentially what the theme was. We had this panel of folks with different backgrounds and perspectives and how they build their businesses and how they build you know their own little communities and networks. Um, I think this time of year, the holiday season in particular, people get lost when it comes to networking just because of life. You know, everyone has these X amount of holiday parties, but I feel like sometimes the intentionality, you know, loses focus. And I think this is the most critical time to be focused if you own a business. And just in general, if you want to grow as a person, individual, you know, it's that classic end of the year, beginning of the year, who you want to be. This is time you should often look back and reflect now. Where am I coming up short? And how can I, you know, better position myself and respectively connect with others to get where I want to be moving into 2026. Where I'm sitting, you know, this time next year in November, and man, I hit those goals because you know I really sat down, it was more intentional of what I'm doing day to day and my business, my life, and the people I'm connecting with.

Ty Cobb Backer: 8:29

Yeah, yeah, for sure. No, it was it was an amazing event, you know, um, from from our our experience, we had a group of us there, and uh we we did end up sponsoring a table. And I would say I met well, I re reunited with you. That's that's very important um point right there, too. But we also connected with several different other people that you know are that may or may not need our services. Um, but not necessarily even that. There was, you know, uh a guy that does mortgages and and things like that. There was an attorney, uh a business, you know, attorney who focuses on you know business stuff. Um I think that might be my attorney who lives there. Yeah, maybe. And I got a I got a uh coffee date with him next Friday. Nice. Um actually, no, I'm sorry, not next Friday, because next Friday's Black Friday. It's actually the following Friday. We I I was trying to schedule. We he hit me up and I was like, How about next week? And I said next Thursday because I looked at my calendar. Oh, it's open. I'm wide open, you know, on on that because I it's just Google Calendar. I don't have the holidays in there. And he was like, Um that's Thanksgiving. I was like, oh shit. Yeah, right, right. And I was gonna blow him off like I was just throwing a day out there next week. Yeah, no, but uh next week's gonna be busy as crap for us. We have our little event that that we're doing on Wednesday. But um, so getting back to kind of touching on what you were talking about, and and a lot of the speakers were bringing it up. Um, so what what's your philosophy on on building real relationships versus you know just going to one of these events and and collecting business cards?

Paul Schiffbauer: 10:17

Oh, that's that's great. I'm gonna pull from Mike Tish, a good friend and mentor of mine, was on the panel. Steal a little bit, one of his nuggets, but share for your audience and folks out there. Um I think when it comes to going to an event, and say you you're meeting people, do a little research on who's gonna be in the room if you can. And Mike gave a great example because he was coming up from Baltimore County. He does a little business up here, um, but this is not his neck of the woods. So he immediately looked. Okay, what names are associated publicly with potential sponsors and people posting certain things on social media? Okay, here's this business, here's that business. I know this person's in the room. So if you're going to an event, fish out of water, think about look at let me rephrase that. Just look at who's you're gonna know potentially gonna be there. And think about too, it's just like what do you need or want out of the event? And I think coming into a place more out of a want than a need is gonna serve you so much because uh you you can't force a connection at that point, it becomes more transactional, it doesn't become real. Yeah, so it's just okay, you know, I'm looking, you know, potentially maybe I am looking to pick up a new client. So look at folks in the room, you know. If your market is homeowners, how many of them are gonna be homeowners? How many of them are potentially be real estate agents that can connect you with those homeowners? Make a list or make a mental note when you're meeting with them or running into them at these events. Okay, I'll follow up with Carter, I'm gonna follow up with Jimmy because they do this, they serve similar markets. We might not hit it off right away, and you probably shouldn't. To me, any relationship developed professionally in the networking space, it goes hand in hand with dating. You're not necessarily gonna get married on the first date. You shouldn't. Something's probably probably wrong there unless it's like in the stars, you know? Um, but it's planting those seeds and and just being really intentional. One thing, and people always look at me funny. So I do have some older business cards, but I intentionally nine times out of ten, don't bring them to events, Ty, because it's the classic. I got a card. It has a mental note potentially to follow up with someone. But if I'm talking to someone 10, 20 minutes and we feel like there could be a next step or there's an initial connection, schedule that lunch, schedule that coffee, yeah, schedule that Zoom call. Where hey, we talked about this, why don't we just set out right now?

Ty Cobb Backer: 13:05

Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree. That's why I asked you that question because I know you didn't have any business cards with you. And it's like you said, plant planting seeds, putting yourself out there, stepping outside your comfort zone, you know, doing some research, like you said, to see what what type of networking event am I going to? And unfortunately, you know, we we kind of knew what we were getting you know involved with when we decided to go to that. And I'll be honest with you, I I I wasn't going there to see what I could actually get out of it. We're going with the potential of what we could bring to to the table. And, you know, it it worked out great for us because, like I said, we made at least five connections um and not necessarily connected at that time, but other people noticed that we were there because you know, we to the table and stuff, and that was kind of the point, you know, but it was more so, you know, what could we bring to the table because and you can tell, you know, and I hope nobody takes this the wrong way, but you can tell rookie networkers, you know, because they got the stack of business cards in their hand, you know, and that might be old school too, but like all their mission is just to see how many business cards they get passed out, and it's like a pat on the back for them. Yeah, right. Like, yeah, I just hand out 50 business cards. Okay, that's great, but what connection did you make? Okay, not just with those people, but what what how were you the connector? How were you able to connect other people with other people? And that's what a lot of networking is about, is being that guy. And and I think somebody was actually talking about the you know, being being that connector. Like everybody knows that I know that guy that might have, you know, uh a person that has a solution to your problem, you know, and that's a good place to be, you know, and because you're the first person I think of to use your services if they need your services, if you're that guy that is authentically just trying to connect people with people. Um, but I think it's I think it's the conversations that you have, and it wasn't how many people that I got to talk to, it was the quality of the conversations with the people that I had when I was there, I think is what really um uh you know affected me, you know, personally while I was there. And I know some of our team members were connecting with people too, and it seemed like we were having conversations, you know, with individuals, the you know, two or three individuals the the entire time we were there, not you know, going around the whole room, trying to see how many business cards we could hand out, but being super intentional with the conversation that we were having, because I didn't want people to think, you know, if my eyes were focused someplace else as they were having a conversation with me. And I think somebody else brought that up. There was a lot in your speaker, the speakers that were there, they were dropping some good nuggets. And and um, you know, getting back to, and then there's the flip side to that too. And and for those of you that may have read Grant Cardone's 10x book, he says any room that you should walk into, he says, you know, who's got my the first thought that should go through your head is it's who's got my money? Yeah, you know, which which isn't bad either. You you know what I mean at the end of the day, and that's just being authentic. You know what I mean? If no, it's at the end of the day, we're in business. Yeah, right, right. And that is that's a great book. And and it and it doesn't necessarily have to be a networking event, but as anywhere, and I think somebody touched on it, you know, you could be standing in line at McDonald's, you could be, you know, um waiting to enter an elevator or in an elevator with other people, just have conversations. That's networking, is just having a conversation with people and and making an impression, hopefully a good impression on somebody, because you never know if you're gonna run into them again or where that conversation is actually going to take you. Because you never know who you're standing next to. You really don't, and you can't always judge a book by its cover either.

Paul Schiffbauer: 16:58

One of the funniest things in terms of my business career. Um I mentioned on our first edition, me coming on here, used to go to like all these trade shows for home furnishings. And we had a gentleman who did some like commission sales for us, and he essentially helped tee up a deal for us, where he was talking to this uh gentleman at this like sales agency where he would pinpoint brands to these big online vendors. It was over a chicken panini sandwich in like the little like makeshift cafeteria where he wasn't like trying to hard sell this guy, Steve, at the booth or hey um you looking to come by our booth, talking about what they were eating and then why you're here, tell me more about you, how long have you been coming the high point? Just actually being real. And it sounds so simple, but at the end of the day, it's people read through that. And my a big thing, especially as I've got an older tie, when I see younger people in the room, or to see people I know where they're uncomfortable or awkward because like they're getting out of their comfort zone. I think the best thing you can do is be real with someone and just try to make them feel comfortable in that room. So that was like my big thing helping co-host that event was okay, I know X amount of people are coming here, make sure they're talking to someone or they're engaged, or getting out of their comfort zone, or this is new to them. Because I had a handful of uh colleagues and friends for that matter in the room where, you know, they haven't come necessarily to an event like this. They've done networking, but it's oh, is it just like B and I? Is it like that? No, this is a different kind of format. Come and you want to be real and make people feel comfortable. It's it's it's a slam dunk. I don't care what setting you're in.

Ty Cobb Backer: 18:57

Yeah, for sure, for sure. You know, and and there's that old saying, you know, and and this is true for marketing as well, too. It's you know, if you try to talk to everyone, you end up talking to no one. No one. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So so speaking of of marketing, how how do you help companies identify, you know, who who you know, who their audience is?

Paul Schiffbauer: 19:20

Okay, yeah, I love that you teed it up that way. Um, because you got my brain stirring. As soon as you said not being everything to everybody. So just a little context at Ship Our Consulting Group, we specialize in really helping businesses grow click to close. And we really want to transform them at the end of the day as you know, we partner with them. Where even if it's a short-term engagement, we're going on a date to start, I'm always looking at the end game. You know, if they are a partner, if we have similar values, if we really jive and we're getting results, they like it, we like it. Let's let's keep growing, man. You know, I want to take you to a pre-revenue company to that, you know, three to get your first million, get to that five million mark. But to answer your question, I I love this. I do a lot of it in really the initial like sales like discovery process, but really go more in depth as we're onboarding, really getting to know folks more intimately. I'm like, what makes you special? What makes you different? And then in the trades, I'm sure you hear it all the time going to these different conventions or guys talking to you with the elevator pitches. We're gas certified, we have 30 years of experience, and we believe in quality. Okay. How many other guys are saying that in your space?

Ty Cobb Backer: 20:41

Yeah, same message.

Paul Schiffbauer: 20:43

Yeah. Yeah. We it's we should rework that. You leverage your experience to help homeowners, you know, with with families have peace of mind in the Dallastown area. That's way more specific where we want to put a bunch of roofs on everyone we can, and we've been doing this for years.

Speaker 2: 21:08

Yeah.

Paul Schiffbauer: 21:09

And oh, by the way, you know, this is how some secondary details, you know, we focus maybe on the Dallastown community. I'm just using that as an ex random example. Right. You know, but we get back to the community. We actually are very local and family driven because we do we serve primarily homeowners who are families. That really further ties it in.

unknown: 21:32

Yeah.

Ty Cobb Backer: 21:32

So would you say that's the biggest mistake that most companies make is that it's the same wash and and repeat messaging that I mean, marketers, I guess, and have have been using that tactic 30 years, and we're certified in this, and you know, fifth generation, you know, with the same, and it's like you see Facebook ads, and we talk about this a lot because we we do most of our marketing in-house, and it's like you see that same roof, you see that same roof being tore off, you see that same group of people up on the roof, all wearing different colored shirts, and you know, it's all the same. So it for somebody in the roofing space, particularly, like what would you say, what would you say we should focus on the most?

Paul Schiffbauer: 22:21

Oh, I love this question just because I've had experience working with a couple roofers in the local area over the years. And I I'm a little cynical in it kind of makes sense. Why is lead cost so high from an acquisition standpoint? Because a not everybody, but a lot of the guys, you know, in central Pennsylvania, and a lot of it's you see more of it, I feel like in Baltimore County, they lean into that 30 years, staff certified. To me, that's just that's entry-level points. And then going from a marketing advertising angle, it's you're running the same exact dollar-dollar promo, essentially, other than maybe a five or ten dollar difference. Like you're just giving me a price tag on a roof replacement, but the next guy's doing the same thing. What's the difference? What's your unique differentiator? You know, I'm okay potentially paying more if you resonate more with me in the messaging. You know, what's your story? Give me a brand video. You know, if I'm getting first served an ad from you on Facebook or Instagram or YouTube, tell me a little bit more about the process and roof eating company ABC. And then, you know, if I'm interested and I get reserved another video where I went on your website and necessarily didn't get you didn't capture my information, okay. Maybe serve another ad that maybe that's more sales process focused. Don't do that right off the rim. Like stand out. Yeah. And it could be, you know, something as reimagining something traditional as the roof replacement or the roof tune-up, but spin it your own way. Let's say you got a banging siding division, and you know the other guys out there don't, just because you actually do all this custom work, leverage that a little bit because that's a positioning point in your marketplace. It might not, you know, be all the bread and butter when we look at the margins, but that might get you in the door if you're going for, you know, a higher tier audience in certain like more affluent, you know, neighborhoods or local areas versus just casting a wide net.

Ty Cobb Backer: 24:33

Yeah. Yeah. No, we've been, we've done all that, you know, and it seemed to work for a little bit. And you know, and the thing is, I guess everyone's trying to figure out, and if they're not trying to figure out, is how to break through that noise because there's so much noise out there. And and how would you, what is like a couple, a couple tricks? And it doesn't matter what industry, how do you break through that noise? How do you stand out? Is it is it the the uh the way that your ads look? Is it pain points that you're trying to because let's face it, you only have 15 to 30 seconds to catch people's attention.

Paul Schiffbauer: 25:07

And boom, at least the gas through initially and get them interested.

Ty Cobb Backer: 25:11

Yeah, right. So, how do you break through that noise? If you were starting a business today, re redoing a business now, what would you do to break through that noise to make yourself unique?

Paul Schiffbauer: 25:22

Okay, so well, let's I'll give a little dichotomy, like really 30,000 foot view. So let's just say I'll I'll use HVAC to switch it up a little bit. Very similar home service kind of vertical. So your ex-HVAC guy, you know, I'm starting off this company. Really look around you from a marketing standpoint. I mentioned earlier, marketing community. To me, the number one rule of marketing though is knowing your market. So if I'm ex HVAC company, I'm gonna I want to know how each of my main direct local competition are positioning themselves. What kind of like deals are then running right now for eating this time of year? What are they saying? How consistent is it? How inconsistent is it? And look for a gap, look for an opportunity. Are they doing video? If not, that's a competitive advantage right there. If they are, and you probably see this all the time in the in the on the roofing side, it's that style of video right now where you got the roofer on the roof with the phone. Hey, Jim, we just replace this roof right now. We can do the same deal for you for X amount. That's super trendy right now. And a lot of the home guys who check this out are gonna know that. Certain trades, you don't see that. But it that's becoming a format where I feel like audiences they're getting used to it. Okay, yeah, no, that's potentially the roofer or said roof owner or the public face of this roofing company and their marketing material that they're putting out. Is it does it work? Does it stand out? You gotta look at, and it's a science in a way, Ty, and for folks listening out there, where to really break through the noise, it's understanding what people are doing and not doing, putting it as simple as that, and then testing. There's been over the years where we'll run, you know, five different creatives and very various variants for a home service company. And a lot of the time I'm like, this one's gonna stick, and it sticks, but sometimes, man, you have this general graphic that would beat a video, and you're like, okay, it's resonating, it's working. We're able to track lead flow directly from this compared to some of the other ads, and they're actually booking jobs from it. Keep running it. So when something is working, when you are starting to break through the noise, don't get too cute until it doesn't become relevant anymore. That's where I feel like other folks sometimes too. It's something's working, and then they want to play around with it because they get bored, and it's objectively, it's ego, it's like, ah man, like that ad's kind of old, we could do something better. Yeah, do something better and test against it from a creative standpoint or an ad copy standpoint. But you know, but don't reinvent the wheel. If it's still gonna work, keep running it.

Ty Cobb Backer: 28:46

Yeah, no, you know, and you said something key there. You got to test things and it takes time, you know. And a lot of people, it it's hard for them to stay consistent and just keep throwing shit on the wall. Let's see what sticks. Keep throwing shit, keep throwing it, keep throwing stuff and keep throwing stuff out there, but also paying attention to like what is working, you know, because a lot of there's a lot of uh a lot of moving parts there. I mean, it could be the time of day that a video hit off well. It could be the type, how long is it? Um, what's what's stopping them from scrolling? And I'm and I'm I I have Facebook mostly in mind right now when I speak. Everybody is on Facebook, everybody. Um mostly everybody is, you know, and there's there's you know, Instagram and then there's TikToks making you know big, big, huge splash nowadays, you know, a lot of people on TikTok, uh a lot of people that you wouldn't even think would be on TikTok or on TikTok because it it's so user friendly. Um, you know, but staying out in front of that stuff and and getting and having the right tools and resources so you can keep testing and keep throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks and uh and stuff like that. So um I guess you know, should should businesses get involved like like their operations, their installs, their service calls, and and and and use that to to fuel their content? Like should they should they bring that into their content? Like should they be on a roof saying, hey, we just installed this, um, or should it just try to cover endpoints? You know what I mean? Like um I can't afford it to offer 18 month savings cash. Or um what do you what do you think the best approach is, you know, because I I too have thrown a fishnet and just tried thought everybody was my client, everybody was my customer, and we're gonna throw out their ads for roofing siding, windows, gutters, and solar. And what I noticed was it's like it it really you only have so many resources. So by the time we throw out the the five or six things that we do it everything becomes watered down. Okay. What I've noticed is if you can kind of just stick to and even if it's if you change it up seasonally whatever do it a whole quarter roofing for one whole quarter and and find what seasons are best for the roofing season. Find what season for the window season find what seasons are best for the the gutter season and gutter guard season and really just drive that in shit I almost forgot my question in the beginning. That's okay. And again well I'm just trying to throw some nuggets out there too for for your guests too because you're you're more than welcome you're sharing our stage.

Paul Schiffbauer: 31:22

Yeah now I'm gonna be sending this to folks in general where I might send this to a few guys I've been talking to where they've been on the fence I'm like pretty much we're just giving a marketing talk right now black time which I think is really cool.

Ty Cobb Backer: 31:37

Yeah me too and we've been both have been doing this for a long time you know and and things change things evolve and and it's it's it's crazy to keep up with nowadays. But let's let's talk about um AI how AI is is changing everything and and how companies should be using it and use it to improve you know their marketing in particular um without losing I guess that human touch.

Paul Schiffbauer: 32:04

The touch yes it's it I glad you brought it up I always hear about it it's not going away I tell folks it's AI's another tool in the marketing sales toolbox it might not necessarily be the end all be all five ten years from now in terms of how you grow your business depending on what your business is who you are as a brand at its core but it's a tool and you should know how to use it for for you and how to best connect with folks it's funny you asked that in particular though John my long-term essentially business partner been on almost every project for the the past six and a half seven and a half years I've been doing this shout out to him he sent a note last night about a client with their Google My Business listing this the organic rankings they have a great name in the area but the ranked are a little lower because they're not open 24 hours time. So he's like maybe nudge him a little bit and potentially let's recommend him a tool where he can be open 24 hours at least intake the calls in where he'll have more of a fighting chance on some organic leads and interests for his Google My Business listing rather than being saying eight to five on his listing where if someone wants something you know like a junk removal company if someone wants a clean out and they're pissed off at seven o'clock at night and he you know he might be busy with the kids and his admin might be tied up with their personal life get the call in it shows that visibility and that AI citizen can intake that call for him at this point. So that's like an unconventional tool that those are things we're actively researching as Ship Fabric Consulting Group to help these small business cats get a competitive advantage not just on the marketing side of things. When it comes to marketing I I like to say you you can use AI for your content to some extent but it's an 8020 principle. You should not be mindlessly creating oh give me some pain point posts and I'm gonna throw them out there on Facebook and I'm not gonna edit them. To me that's almost more damaging from a branding standpoint especially if you really pride yourself on being a homegrown local entity or whatever if you're just a one man crew with a helper or 1520 guys you still got to be you at the end of the day. Like I mentioned AI is a tool use your brain when you're using it especially when it comes to like content so if you are you know it is a a tool in the sense where use it to generate ideas in terms of hey what are some pain points for my you know customers if I own a tree care business. Okay, let's do the pain points let's take it a step further Ty and folks out there I'm gonna dump into this AI agent or prompt all our previous or samples of our ad copy and how we speak here's a couple Facebook post screenshots here's the content on our website that we're really proud of because it actually does sound like us because we invested time and effort to make sure it does here's another note I'm gonna upload a video I did me as the owner because I'm the primarily you know sales specialist and we train our guys to like approach folks like this I'm gonna upload that into the agent prompt. So all of a sudden you upload all these examples you spend time and effort in that actually sound like you your brand and your business then AI agent prompt is going to sound a lot closer to how you want to talk to your potential audience out there versus then any tree company or any old junk company or roofing company out there. That's when you using your brain and being strategic with the tool versus just picking it up it's the real thing as if you're climbing on a roof you're just not just gonna start chipping away at it. There's certain ways you're gonna tackle on how to replace that roof and how to properly prep it. That's the same thing when you're using these new tools. Yeah think about it like that.

Ty Cobb Backer: 36:38

Right. Yeah no for sure and there's so many different ways you can use it and and one is is you know posting you know your your content and what times a day and and I know a lot of companies waste money on on boosting post without a strategy like you were kind of talking about there and and and so what what are some smarter ways to approach paid ads?

Paul Schiffbauer: 37:01

Okay that's great. So a big thing is you ideally you want to funnel someone where they can give you their information and you can intake it in a proper fashion. A big mistake I see and it usually it's a lot of guys where they just have a call extension on their ad. But I know damn right well man they don't have an out of certain like office assistant that's more traditional like you know call center or they don't have the AI assistant. So if I click on their ad at 835 at night they just you know wasted a probably significant amount of like bucks right there.

Speaker 2: 37:43

Yeah.

Paul Schiffbauer: 37:44

So making sure the destination point is somewhere where that information can be secured and you can reach them in a timely fashion. Direct them to the website if you have website you should have a website is a sales tool. I don't care if it's a one page rule souped up or something you know five, 10, 15, 20 pages depending on how much information and consideration you want to give a potential customer or a client make sure you have points that intake that information in a timely fashion. So if let's say they are you know window shopping or price shopping or you know something more cosmetic, a hardscaping project at 10 o'clock at night because Susie and Devin, that's the only time they have really to look together to consider quotes and options make sure if you have a contact form it says we're going to reply back to you within 24 hours or during these hours. So that's the expectation of when they can get back to you where they don't get pissed off and don't consider you once you don't get back. Or if you are in a more high pressure environment where you know it's roofing and you know there's a storm rolling through and it is 10 o'clock at night you might have that call center or AI assistant but make sure you also have maybe that chat bot feature that can intuitively feed that information to the right party so they can get teed up for service right there when they immediately need it because that pain point's the highest.

unknown: 39:06

Yeah.

Paul Schiffbauer: 39:07

Because at that point it's just you're bleeding money man on the on ads it doesn't make sense if you can't properly or purposefully pick up the phone. At the end of the day it's I I run into folks sometimes problems in early engagements where a lot of time I first talk to them Ty folks out there I ask more sales related questions on their sales process and how they intake and work with customers and clients versus what they do for marketing and have done for marketing. Because if they can't pick up the phone or call back why are you potentially spend thousands of dollars and invest that with with a partner like us because it's at that point is you're you're there's gonna be waste.

Ty Cobb Backer: 39:50

Yeah no such a great point you know to to gather that data you know and and answer the phone you know what I mean you you have to have somebody that that is answering the phone even and and I'm a big stickler on that too because like you said most people are working nine to five jobs they go home they they got sporting events they're they're the kid they come home they eat dinner next thing you know it's 8 39 10 o'clock at night and that's when they're scrolling or searching you know uh whether they're using AI because you can use AI as a search engine now or or whatever whatever the case might be um you you gotta have something in place a call center put in place uh somebody and if you're if you're advertising on your website 24-7 you better have somebody answering that phone or getting right back to them yeah in a timely fashion there's an expectation of when I will get a reply for a next chat exactly and and chatbots huge especially a messenger have somebody you know that is somebody or something that is replying back that like you said will get back to you within two hours or 24 hours um or a chatbot that can actually have a conversation with somebody you know I mean and it's taking the time and the place it takes it takes time to set those things up and put them in place but it it's it's worth it in the long run like you had mentioned they're they're spending a lot of money with the marketing company they're spending a lot of money on creating the content they're spending a lot of time and and energy and if you're gonna go all in go all in but but don't forget how you're capturing the call how you're capturing you know the the form submissions that are coming through your website or or through social media and all those things that's just as important it's almost like that's the foundation like you almost need to have that set up first before you start throwing the the fishing line out there. You know what I mean like how am I going to be available to answer the call or am I going to be on a am I going to be on a roof? Am I gonna be on someone's kitchen sink, you know, turning wrenches and I won't be able to answer the phone anyhow.

Paul Schiffbauer: 41:51

Which is it's it's fine Ty if that's the case let's say I'm a guy pre-revenue starting off I maybe have one crew I ask them who picks up the phone and they say me I'm like let's have a conversation about that before we even press play. Absolutely I'm like here's the expectation if we primarily push ads to your phone and you don't pick up right away the chance of you being considered is going to go down. So we want to give them either a the option where they can go to the website and fill everything out or where something can be captured on their own accord or two it's just you gotta you know you got to know there's the risk where if you're on a roof and doing this and not capturing every every call we're gonna have a conversation down the road in our first phase of our engagement if you're like man I'm not closing any business well we're able to track 30 calls from you know Google ads data that we have set up at analytics for you know 90% of them are 717 numbers where even if our early campaign we're really hitting the marks we see some high intention calls coming in you know a minute two minutes four five 10 minutes what's up with all these calls that weren't answered when I see the 717 numbers did you call them back and a lot of times it's this accountability thing with folks that I have it's like uh nah I didn't get back to it yet I'm like why not? Especially if this is a goal for you to grow your business you know depending on what that those goals that may look like for those folks.

Ty Cobb Backer: 43:29

Absolutely absolutely so what what um what KPI should a business um you know really be tracking and and because I know it it's not just the likes and the comments and the impressions and stuff like that.

Paul Schiffbauer: 43:41

So what KPIs should we be following if it's truly growth growth from a revenue standpoint it's what's my cost per lead and and that is a number in itself. So it's figuring out what's the cost per call over X amount of seconds how many calls are you getting and then getting qualitative feedback from those folks and yourself more importantly internally okay if I'm getting 20 calls over X amount at at X amount duration at Y cost, how many of these are my closing and then I have now a tracker doing this for three months is this scalable and if the front end lead cost is good but the actual close cost in terms of getting an estimate and getting a job is bad it's looking more internally at that point. Is it something with my sales process? Is it something with my delivery of that estimate to close the door what what are the objections if I'm not getting that business at the end of the day when we start with folks Ty and folks out there we focus on that first initial lead cost. What's your cost per call if we set up analytics properly what's that cost per lead coming in your website or contact form that's our baseline metric because until we get more in depth with you in terms of providing some guidance on how to improve your sales process and your operations that's stuff we do really long term with folks it's it's you as a business center. Because if you're taking the calls and running the estimates it's not our responsibility we can get qualitative feedback saying hey Paul this one's out of market okay that shouldn't have happened let's put a negative zip code in so you don't get that anymore. You know we don't want to go in New York City because you know based on your business the leads we're getting from a pay to ad standpoint you know are lesser quality. That's something we can control on our end. But the main KPI is your cost per lead and it's really three quadrants of that the marketing cost and initial acquisition your estimate cost your quote cost and then your actual true job cost factored in because that number is going to look completely different from job cost to lead cost. But ideally over time when you measure the three as a business owner you want to make sure it's very sustainable for you and scalable because like you might be really happy where you're at with what you're doing from a paid standpoint and even an organic standpoint it's tracking that from a lead cost standpoint. So it's this what goes into organic it's a little more naive a little more ambiguous but it's usually time and effort. Yeah if you're a bigger you know home service company maybe five to 10 million a year and you got a marketing coordinator or manager on staff what activities are they doing you know if they're not handling the paid stuff from an organic standpoint to generate or further generate organic business for you. And you need to evaluate that in terms of their salary and in terms of like their time and effort.

Ty Cobb Backer: 46:56

Yeah no so so so much good stuff that you reviewed there. And the one thing that kept going through my head it's it's a little bit overwhelming because the second it's kind of twofold here the second that you think you have it figured out there it's neither one of those facets are are static. No it's never changing. It's very fluid like what was making the phone ring six months ago may not make the phone ring today.

Paul Schiffbauer: 47:22

Especially in the trades. Because you have the given seasonality especially in the Northeast market. Yeah like we pinpoint it in most trades where there's different little pockets with roofing versus maybe your traditional tree guys. Yeah but I mean we kind of know it as like the back of our hand where January through February is the lowest for most of the folks in our our main book in the trades. Yeah. So it's now it's just like if we're working with someone long term how do they be proactive and get ahead at the end of summer in the fall with the marketing programs and initiatives to putting out so what are we doing paid what are you going to do or how can we help you on some of the stuff where you know where let's get more out of your current book so you got an email list of past customers what can we do to nurture them to maybe set some stuff up over the winter or in the early spring to kind of get you through that lull yeah yeah no it it it you you always got to be thinking about it.

Ty Cobb Backer: 48:25

You know if you're if you're just now thinking now's the time is the is the season where you should be thinking about next year's marketing. You should have in place already things in motion like shit you should have had them in the beginning of Q4 at the end of Q3. Correct and and I know it's hard I know I know it is and and you know January will be here before we know it but you know and I'm not saying January's too late to start thinking about this because you do have January February March at least in our in our seasonal um trade that we're in but I've I've sat here in this office January 1st that Monday morning was like dude I didn't even think about what we were going to do for 20 you know whatever year that was that was the last time.

Paul Schiffbauer: 49:08

Because you're running and gunning and it's just like I'm sure you probably sat where this kind of sucks right now. Yeah I wish I thought I had or thought a little differently about this.

Ty Cobb Backer: 49:19

Of course because none of this stuff happens overnight and it and you know and what you're doing eventually is you're you're creating brand awareness you know and and and I think that's what's helped us you know carry through where a lot of other people you know have been slower we've we've remained steady or or busier than usual because of our community involvement. So what role does community involvement play in brand awareness and and how can how can companies get it right so it's not cheesy?

Paul Schiffbauer: 49:50

It's got to be them. Because sometimes cheesy to one company is not going to be cheesy to another company that it's brand and audience guy. And that's okay. But you shouldn't be doing everything that you know someone else is doing necessarily make sure it's still you and it comes back to like even networking in person one-on-one be real I think a great example in the local South Central market of a home business is uh Jared Petro URLAX Moving he's got his shtick he's got his skits but they work for his brand personally in you relax as a business where it's fun family oriented they do things throughout the year to support that mission and it's consistent in their marketing and messaging. But at the end of the day it's a yeah we're gonna take care of your family we're gonna have a little fun doing it but we also are experts and here's some of the technical stuff that we do.

Ty Cobb Backer: 50:44

If another moving company was trying to do what you relax is doing with all the skits in the same vein be like wait aren't these other guys doing it that's kind of a little corny you know yeah no for sure and it kind of comes back to that example when you asked me about like roofing in general you don't want to sound like all the other roofers no and no hard I mean because there's so much noise out there and everybody's posting the same shit the warranties and it's family owned and operated and you know this this is the people people buy buy from from companies um you know don't buy from companies I should say that you know they they buy from the brand that they recognize and they trust um you know awareness is the is the first step in in the relationship so anybody that's getting started in this like what what is your brand going to be what what is your last impression going to be you know and if I had to do it all over again I would be super intentional about that. Like it took me a good four or five years to figure out my why like the company's why and create a culture and and we've lived that for you know the past 12, 15 years. But it it unfortunately had taken me because we didn't have social media back then. We we really didn't we had yellow book um yellow book finally went digital and and started creating you know websites and and things like that. So it was it was a lot of word of mouth rap trucks yard times door hangers and we still use a lot of that traditional brand awareness that that omnipresence but what is your messaging now that you have you know um you know digital marketing and stuff like that and it's so much easier now to reach but you got to make sure it all matches too like you can't have a color of something on this and a color of something and I'm not saying pattern interrupt isn't good um over time but you you shouldn't even be thinking about that yet until you know you're well established.

Paul Schiffbauer: 52:46

You got to it's branding 101 and I've seen it so much over my career and I've been very blessed to have a couple mentors in the branding space where these guys are like savants where they've done like Fortune 100 corporate branding and be able to kind of early on in my career work under them projects and kind of shadow them for me to get more experience just in how to run an agency and how to interface with clients and really the most important thing brand good marketing can only take branding so or so far. If you don't know who you are and we're you're saying you're the best HVAC guy but you also offer plumbing and electrical you're gonna get lost in the sauce buddy look hone in on what you do best. I mentioned the example where it's a little outside the box but like if you're in a serving an affluent area and some people are more intentional with their sidings and windows lean on that even if they're not your moneymaker that's roofing's where you make your money maker when you go in out on the sales side and have that conversation with those folks that's where we're gonna make the bread at the end of the day and pay the bills. Yeah true because I've seen guys especially in the roofing industry where they really don't have a brand other than those 30 years gaff. They don't know who they are they think it's just just because they can throw a roof on they should be making money and they do but if they really hone in on self-reflecting and honestly going thinking objectively if here's a couple questions to consider for folks out there with brain I'll give this nugget what would you want one of your customers to say about you what are those words and get that feedback if you can because I'm sure one of your good customers would tell you that and then talk to a colleague I call them a champion or cheerleader or they refer business to you or willing to refer business to you what would they say about you and then if those two things don't jive or they sound different you have some brand incongruency my friend because that champion or cheerleader even if they never bought from you they should know how you best serve customers and the same thing even with some of your maybe your your core customers where you they might have been like an indirect client or customer where they bought one of your ancillary services oh yeah they're pretty good I mean I've heard him in my line of work where oh yeah they're pretty good at websites. What we really do is digital transformation grown you click the close at the end of the day we're more than just like a website shop. That was some branding congruency me starting off a couple years ago were like man I had to look a little inward. So it's making sure your customer clients know what you do best same as your your referral partners and other people in your networking circle. And I love how that tied right back into our initial conversation with networking there.

Ty Cobb Backer: 56:01

Yeah absolutely absolutely yeah it's humanizing the brand you know it's it's it's people trust people you know people do business with people they know they like they trust and and how do they do how do you get them to do all those things you know and it's it's it's the companies that are you know showing their team their their culture their values and and those are the companies that are going to win today. It truly is and if you can if you can wrap that up and tie a night nice little neat bow on it and tie you know hit hit the the the pain points and the call to action and it in 15 seconds like you're gonna win the battle. And it's it's hard because we live in an Amazon world today people don't want to watch a you know a a 30 second I mean it's tough to get them to watch a whole 30 second you know anything over 30 seconds forget about it. They're gonna keep scrolling and uh you know so that's that's that's just kind of my my spin on it but it's like I said it it there's ebbs and flows with it and it's very fluid. It's nothing it's not static at all. You know AI is changing and it's changing our our our industry fast. I mean we use it in just about every facet from um we're we're building out our own AI right now for our company you know SOPs KPIs everything um you know in and as far in terms of how we're creating the content and when the content's being put out and what platforms the content's being placed on at what times a day and all these things that you know blog post writing I mean AI can bust out 500 in five minutes you know blog post um out of uh paying an individual you know to to write five a day maybe you know back in not that long ago but but uh you know get like you said getting back to the networking thing you know marketing isn't isn't just digital you know it's it's uh you know in your event prove that you know real people connecting with with you know um real people and and which creates real momentum you know this I felt the momentum once we left there so that was that was good and and uh is there we're right we're getting ready to come up on that hour mark and I know you got a you got a hard hard stop here um is there anything else that you want to throw out there quick another another little nugget biggest thing I can say is if you're not if you're a business owner and you're not happy or pleased with where you're at now you need to think about where you want to be in 12 months.

Paul Schiffbauer: 58:41

I know a lot of guys out there even guys you're bigger there's a lot going on in the economy in the seasonality right now you might be thinking to get through the winter give me the spring where do you want to be in 12 months and look at it objectively what you're doing marketing advertising and sales first and foremost and then the operations are going to support a lot of the gaps that still might be occurring in those three like business quadrants marketing advertising you can lump into one but that's where I would really stress is this is time for reflection but action where a lot of things you want to be doing J J1 you should be doing them before you put those Christmas presents under the tree this year. Get serious about who you want to be and if you want to have a conversation with me feel free to reach out because at minimum going to point you in the right direction.

Ty Cobb Backer: 59:39

No doubt no doubt great great great advice man you know Paul always a pleasure having you on the show man you you're one of those guys who truly understand you know not just the tactics tactics behind marketing but the heart that goes the heart behind it you know with with connecting people building trust and know elevating the brand the the the right way and and for for anyone listening if you want to get sharper on your marketing or or just want to understand how to get your message you know out there more clearly um definitely reach out to Paul you know paul paul's an OG in our local area and and he knows everybody which is a good start right there and if he if he doesn't have the tools he knows somebody that's got the tools um you know and and thanks for for tuning in everybody to this episode of Behind the Toolbout and and make sure that that you like love subscribe share this out um and leave us a review and and uh Paul we'll put your uh we'll put your website in the in our comments that way if anybody wants to reach out to you that that might listen to this um later they'll they'll be able to uh hook you up and sound good them up I appreciate it brother it was great running to you last week and this was been fun yeah for sure man I hope I hope to stay in touch oh we will we'll be intentional about it yes for sure all right till next week everybody stay dry out there