Ty Cobb Backer: 0:00

And we are live. Welcome back, everyone, to Behind the Tool episode 301. I'm your host, Ty Cobb Backer. Thank you for joining us on this Wednesday edition. We will be back after our short intro from our sponsors.

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Every week, post Ty Cobb Backers sits down to bring you the stories, the struggles, the lessons learned, and the women told. No filters, no scripts, just the truth. Please welcome your host to Behind the Tool Belt, Ty Cobb Backer.

Ty Cobb Backer: 0:59

Hey, welcome back, everybody, to Behind your Tool Belt. Woo! I'm your host, Ty Backer, and today we have a powerful guest, Steven Spence. Hello founder of Project Map It. If you're in the home improvement space and you care about showcasing your work, building social proof, closing more deals, Steve is your guy. You need to reach out to him and we will post his stuff in the comments. Steven has helped hundreds, if not thousands, of contractors elevate their online presence by turning job photos. And if I'm wrong, please correct me, Steven. Job photos into reviews, mapping technology into lead generation. We're going to dig into how Project Map it got started. The impact he has on our industry, which I know firsthand, and what contractors need to know to stay ahead of the curve. Of course, Stephen, I will give you a minute to talk. Pretty jacked up if you haven't noticed. Maybe a little more usual, maybe not. We're also going to talk about uh Steven's mission. His mission is actually near and dear uh to both of us. Uh Roofers and Recovery, Recovery in General, Swing for Recovery, and the impact that Steven and Roofers and Recovery are having on our industry. Steven and I are teaming up to host again our second annual Steve's third, so actually technically third annual swing for recovery. I freaking love it. Um and an event, you know, to uh create awareness and and funds to support those battling addiction and seeking the path to recovery. We're gonna cover entrepreneurship, impact, I'm sure, and how our industry can rally together for something bigger, more than just business. So, anyhow, my friend Steven Spence, welcome to the stage.

Stephen Spence: 2:58

Thank you for having me. I've never seen you uh prepare a speech. You did you write that yourself? Like I that's impressive. A little bit.

Ty Cobb Backer: 3:08

Yeah, well, I put a couple notes in here that I wanted to maybe little plug, little plugs here, little uh names I didn't want to forget to throw out there.

Stephen Spence: 3:17

You done good.

Ty Cobb Backer: 3:18

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Stephen Spence: 3:20

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Ty Cobb Backer: 3:22

Yeah, you're you're you're a good dude. And uh I wanted to make sure that you got you know the correct exposure, the notoriety, um, you know, where this comes from because I know locally here people were like, yeah, we're gonna go out and do do ties, you know, swing for recovery. And and uh, you know, they're inviting people, but I don't know if they know the whole story. You know, it's like this isn't this isn't about me, this isn't my event. This is actually, you know, Stevens, and I I would, I'm sure I'm gonna speak, speak for you on this, but you know, you I know that you know that this isn't about you, this is about everybody else, and and having an impact on our industry, but most importantly, those that are in need of recovery.

Stephen Spence: 4:04

Yeah, so yeah, yeah.

Ty Cobb Backer: 4:06

So good, good stuff, man. So um let's talk a little bit about Project Map It before you know, there might be people in here that are watching for the first time that you've been on a show, yeah, and they may not know what the hell is Project Map It. Sounds pretty cool. I love the logo, blah, blah, blah. But but where where did it originate from? Like how where what?

Stephen Spence: 4:29

So it was actually a it was a software that was built by a roofing company uh here in my local area, Maryland. Uh, by one of I was a lacrosse player and and high school teacher and lacrosse coach at high school for 20 years prior to this career change seven and a half years ago. And one of my ex-Lacrosse players who graduated from my high school that I coached for four years, he started Project Map. It I was the first ever hire back in 2018. And then in 2020, I took it over with four other partners. So there are five of us, and I wake up every day. I'm I'm I kid you not, I think you know this, Ty, about me. I'm very passionate about it. I'm a 51-year-old dude that uh changed careers when he was, I guess, 40 or 40, whatever, 44. And uh I had to learn the industry and I I fell in love with the industry, and I'm a very competitive person. I just mentioned lacrosse, so I'm I've always been into sports, so I'm really competitive like you are. And so for me, there was there was no option for failure, right? Like I didn't know the industry from Adam when I started back in 2018 to now, where I've just grinded like a mofo and met incredible people along the way, like you and some of our huge partnerships that we have, and just fell in love with the industry. And and honestly, I I also fell in love with the recovery part of the industry and and knowing that there's a huge problem of drug, alcohol, addiction, as well as mental health in our industry. And uh that also spurned me to get on this path of you know supporting such a great cause with roofers in recovery and bringing you in the fold, and you obviously not even not bringing you in the fold. It was actually born on this show, my idea of this golf tournament. So that's Project Map It. We're an interactive mapping platform. We're we're literally just think if you're any kind of contractor, uh, think of a map of all of your password. And all of that password will help prove to a homeowner that you're the best one for the job, right? If I can zoom into a map and show 20 pins that we did in your neighborhood, you're showing that we work in your neighborhood. You're getting you're you're building trust with that con with that homeowner. Um, and it's so much more than just pins on a map. We we have a review platform that helps you collect reviews. Uh, we've found great success. So if you're a company that has doesn't really have a solution to getting reviews, we are awesome for that. Um we are photos, right? So putting photos of your jobs. The map can be filtered down by in the roofing industry, shingle color, siding color, commercial product type. Uh, you can click a filter, like, I want to look at the moray black roofs, and the map changes to only show projects that are more a black, which which obviously exterior remodeling companies love. And we sync directly to your Google Business Profile. So our mapping platform shows all your reviews too. So total social proof, like Ty said, uh, that's what we are. We have great integrations that that makes your life a lot easier. If you're ordering material from QXO, SRS, or ABC. Um, your map can be created through those deliveries uh through integration. So we make it super simple for you. We're photos, we're we're a photo documentation system, but we also integrate with great companies like Company Cam. So it's a really easy platform, but it it it really it builds that trust that literally will help your close rate increase by three to ten or more percent.

Ty Cobb Backer: 7:48

Yeah. No, I love that. I love that. And and I I can you know contest to everything that you just said, especially when you had mentioned about you know very big, large uh partnerships with with people, like some some of the biggest, all of the biggest distribution centers around the country here, you know, your partners with ABC, SRS, Beacon, uh all of them, and you've been able to integrate with their systems.

Stephen Spence: 8:16

Yeah.

Ty Cobb Backer: 8:17

So I wanted to also plug. So like if somebody wanted to reach out or figure out more about SRS or I'm sorry, Project Map It, they could, whichever distribution center that they're using, they can actually reach out to them and and like integrate it with probably whatever CRM the contractor is using with the CRM or platform rather. What you know, Beacon has a real nice portal, ABC has a real nice portal. A lot of us contractors take advantage of that so then we can see pictures of our deliveries, we'll know when deliveries are going out and things of that nature. But most importantly, they're also tracking the addresses where these projects are being um you know conducted. So then your integration with them is also captivating that those addresses for you. So we don't have to do it manually. I just wanted to point that out because I know a lot of us contractors aren't very um you know proactive, or we'll just let the list compile and it's like we lose half of it. And it's you know, I I like I really like that feature where it's super simple. And you told me about that, Steve. One day, we'll just you know, give so and so a call and and they'll just give me the list of all your addresses. I was like, damn, that is genius. So um I just wanted to point that out because I mean, obviously, you run a legit uh you know platform, if not all of the the heavy hitters in our industry would not be using you or allowing you to partner with them. So kudos to you for that. And uh getting getting you know, touch a little bit on your work ethic too. I've also got the experience and have watched Steven outwork everybody. When somebody and Steven doesn't even talk like that, he doesn't even say, I'm gonna outwork everybody. He just does it. Steven just shows up and he kicks ass and and and takes names. I got to experience that at a couple different shows. We've partnered up on some booth space, and Steve is just nonstop. I have no idea how he still has a voice or his back isn't sore or his feet aren't freaking killing him because he is just chucking and jiving and and grinding it out. Like you said, dude, you you you've built something here that is very special, and and I applaud you for that.

Stephen Spence: 10:21

That's the that's very nice. Thank you for saying saying all that. I truly appreciate it. I'm humbled by someone like you in the industry saying that. So thank you.

Ty Cobb Backer: 10:28

Yeah, you're one of the hardest working people I know, dude. You're you're an inspiration. And if no one's got to experience that, check Steven out at the next, you know, expo or you know, I know Certainty, your partner of certainty. Can't forget that. That's a huge partnership there. Um, got to listen to one of your, you know, your your breakouts there, and like you do such an amazing um uh shoot, I just had the word.

Stephen Spence: 10:53

Um we have a great presentation.

Ty Cobb Backer: 10:55

Yeah, presentation. You have an amazing presentation, and it's not even just your it's the way that you articulate the message to the crowd and you keep the crowd engaged. You did little exercises. It was just, it was, it was awesome, dude. You you you you're a very talented man, which probably some of that comes from your your background from being a coach and a teacher and all that good stuff. So you know how to deal with idiots like me, and and so I can comprehend what it is that you're picking, what you're putting down.

Stephen Spence: 11:22

When you're a teacher for 20 years, you get a you get accustomed and and you feel natural when you're in front of people. So absolutely I I enjoy it. That's one of my favorite parts of my job is to present and to help educate contractors because we don't just talk about project mapping in our presentations at certain teeth events. We we educate them on you know the sales process. What I've learned from people like you and other industry leaders, we educate them on their online presence, like websites and Google business profiles and all that. So yeah, no, thank you very much for that intro. I appreciate it, Ty.

Ty Cobb Backer: 11:52

Yeah, man, you're the man. You are the man for sure.

Stephen Spence: 11:55

Takes one and no one, takes one to no one.

Ty Cobb Backer: 11:57

No doubt. And you know, what's crazy is like I probably see people in the industry who live further away more than I see you, and you're like 45 minutes from me.

Stephen Spence: 12:07

I'm an hour and a half.

Ty Cobb Backer: 12:08

Hour and a half? Oh, whatever. I'm an hour and a half. Okay. Thie time 45 minutes, GPS time, hour and a half.

Stephen Spence: 12:16

We usually we try to see each other often, but it's been it's been too many months recently, to be honest with you. I could yeah, yeah.

Ty Cobb Backer: 12:23

Well, just FYI. I will be, we should be in town till at least the end of the month, beginning of November. So let's in the next two, three, four weeks, let's well, we'll see each other at Swing for Recovery. Good segue.

Stephen Spence: 12:37

You'll see me in a couple weeks, and I'll see you in three weeks.

Ty Cobb Backer: 12:40

Yeah, great, great, great segue here. So yeah, swing for recovery. Speaking of which, yeah. What uh let's let's talk about it. Let's talk about you know, your your passion for recovery. Um, and maybe if you want to get a little vulnerable on that, let us know why. You know, I'm sure most people want to know why. Maybe why recovery? Why swing for recovery? Why, you know, I know it was inspired on this because of purpose and you wanting a a purpose for your company, right? Because, you know, all companies should should be not money purpose or revenue purpose. There should be a cause, there should be, you know, some substance to like why are we doing this every day? You know, obviously to make an impact, right? If you're doing it for the right reasons, if you're in business, and sometimes it takes some of us a little longer to figure out, okay, I am here to make an imprint, I am here to leave an impression, I am here to build a legacy mindset. You are gonna go so much further um when you make it about something else or someone else outside of your yourself. So this this for me, from the outside looking in, is this has been become your purpose. Um, so so let's talk about that a little bit.

Stephen Spence: 13:52

Yeah, it's uh yeah, I'll I'll get as vulnerable as you want. Um it's it's it has become very, very important to me. Uh and it's also it becomes more important to me every day. Every time I have a conversation like this online, you know, we were just with Roofers Coffee Shop with Paul and Kim Reed a week or two ago. And, you know, every time I'd like to tear up when I talk about it. Um it started with trade shows seven years ago when I started them, right? I I was, like I said, I was a teacher for 20 years. I didn't, I've never been to a trade show and I started going to these trade shows and I saw like I saw two sides of the fence, and there's a middle, there's a middle portion as well, but two extremes, right? There's there are contractors that are in that are in recovery that don't go out and party at all and just have fun and can do everything and have more fun even without drinking. And then there are or drugs, and then there is the other side of the of the fence, which are the extreme parts where you know I witness people, you know, partying literally all night long, where I would be up at six in the morning going down to the hotel's work, work, workout room to get a workout in, and there are people like drunk as skunks with bottles all over the table, just making noise and acting like buffoons. And to each their own, I'm not calling everybody on here that might be seeing it that does that a buffoon. Um, I personally drink still. Um, I Paul Paul Reed and I have talked, had some really good conversation. I got to, we can talk about this too if you want. I don't know how much time we have, but I went out to Alosa, Colorado, where um Kim and Paul Reed built the first uh rehab center kind of on Roofers and Recovery's behalf as well. And I got to interview people there, which was amazing. But anyway, Paul called me a normie. So I always address myself as a normie, a person that drinks but still supports the cause uh and still wants to help in any way, shape, or form. So, anyway, for years I I went to these trade shows and I realized like I like Ty Backer and his crew so much more than this crew. And it really was. It was what was it? In was it Texas during the ice storm where we hung out and really got to know each other, and then we went to a couple trade shows and shared booths together. And then fast forward to your show back in 202, we're in 2025. So this is my third year doing it back in 2023. I was on your show and you had mentioned Roofers in Recovery Day was right around the corner. It was like a month later or whatever. And it literally was at that moment standing up in your old studio where you stood. And uh, it was at that moment I told you, I was like, Oh fuck, that's what I want to do, man. That's that's the cause. Like for years I was trying to figure out what cause I wanted. I'm a lacrosse guy. I'm like, should I do a cause for like kids in Africa that need lacrosse equipment? That makes that doesn't there's no synergies there between like what like I work with contractors, I want a cause with contractors. And so when you brought up Roofers in Recovery Day, I knew right then and there. And literally, Ty, I think it was three weeks later, I had my first golf tournament. Yes, for anybody that's listening, I put on a golf tournament in three weeks, and it's it sucked, if I'm gonna be honest with you. It was like 16 people. Uh, we raised about $2,000, um, which was you know great for three weeks. But then the following year I had a little more time and I called you, Ty. I'm like, Ty, do you want to join join the bandwagon and and you do a golf tour in York? And I'll do a golf tour in PA and Swing for Recovery was born.

Ty Cobb Backer: 17:20

Yeah, I love that. I love it. I love that story. I love listening to that story, never get old, especially how we met and and what inspired you. Um, you know, I you know, roofers and recovery has been very inspirational to me. Yeah, I have also got to experience the darker side of you know, roofing conventions. Jan and I, I mean, I want to say it's gotta be. I think I've for the past couple of years I've been saying, hey, 13 years ago. So that's it's probably closer to 13 years now, because it might have been only like five when I first started to say 13 years ago. But we we our first um expo or convention was a win the storm, and they were in their prime, they were in the hype. I don't know, it might have it might have been around for a couple years, and it was about 13 years ago, I think. And 10, 10, 13 years ago. So we we went there, man, it was so packed, so many people, and and we we saw what you had mentioned. We saw we saw the partyers, people still in the lobby from the night before. Yeah, like like I thought they got up before me. Like there were so many people, like they were just still there from the night before. It kind of blew me away. And not that I've never done that myself, but it it just, you know, I just was like, wow, wow. But um, so we're walking around, and it's huge. And we saw this sign because they had the way the booths were set up, they they would allow you to put a sign up and it said roofers in recovery. Now, mind you, there's a lot of storm restoration, recovery, you know, things, things of that nature. There's there's PAs, there's attorneys set up with booths and stuff like that. And Jana and I were both like, that's a like our recovery. Is that like industry recovery? Like, what is that? So Jana being the little social butterfly that she is, she goes over there and she introduces herself, and there's Paul Reed and and a few other people, the the the the founding members, you know, the OGs of of you know, Roofers and Recovery, they're like, Oh no, come on. They had just had couches. It was their booth was literally like the two love seats and like four four comfortable chairs. And I guess they were just having meetings on on the you know expo floor there. And I was like, oh my god, it's giving me goosebumps right now. Not only am I at a roofing convention, but there's other sober people here, yeah. You know, and and because we we were on our own island back then. I mean, we thought we were hot shit. It opened my eyes because I thought we were hot shit on a silver platter. But to come to find out after experiencing something that big at that scale and the size of the companies that were there, we we found out real quick that we were just a cold turd on a paper plate. But it we had learned so much, you know, from listening, and everybody was so open. And then we got to experience a meeting, recovery meeting while we were there, and it was like, dude, this is the greatest thing ever. Like, when is the next one? We wanted to know. Um, and shortly after that, I I developed a relationship, a friendship with with Paul, uh Kim, and and uh probably mostly with with Erico. And uh like we just whatever we could do to to help out, you know, we we were we were there, you know, and and it's it's such a great cause. Like both roofing and recovery, like, dude, it doesn't, that's my world. That's the world that I live in today. Yep. You know, so for those two to find that bridge, okay, um, that's why this is so important because I've been around, I've done it, I've been up all night for three days out on a job site, and then couldn't wait to get and and drink and drink all night long and show up to work again and then and then stop, couldn't do it, couldn't show up to work anymore. I became unemployable and uh just you know, I lost myself years ago and and recovery found me. I don't even know if I I found recovery, but recovery found me. I was I was uh 12-stepped into the program. I was encouraged, I heard and saw what I liked over there. I I I really thought the grass was greener. I needed something. I mean, what else did I have to lose, you know, at that point in time in my life? And and uh so very special, very, very special, you know, with this this whole thing. And then you being so close to me, wanting to get involved, it just makes it even more special. You know what I mean? This is this is about you for us, you you know what I mean, which is and then the greater impact that it's having. Um, but like why why do you think roofers and recovery is so important right now for our industry?

Stephen Spence: 21:59

Yeah, I mean, I I've had so many important and uplifting but powerful conversations over the last two years since I've been doing this. Um, you know, this plaque says I'm a partner advocate of roofers and recovery. These are the golf balls. I think TC Backer, your golf balls on there somewhere. We're gonna have flags. I'm gonna have a flag. Um, our the industry, our industry, it's the number one industry of people, human beings in the United States that struggle with drug and alcohol addiction. And roofers in recovery, as you know, they've expanded to also mental health, right? So why is this really important? Well, uh Paul always shares this stat. So I I I can't give you the source, but I know NRCA does a really, really good job by providing support as well. Uh, you know, one stat that that really impacts me to like to the core is you know, last year or in 20, it was like 2022 or 2023, there were 38 deaths of roofers falling off a roof or somehow there was a a roofer-related fatal accident, right? 38. That's a lot. Yeah, but there were also 5,000 suicides, right? So when you when you tack on the mental health issue, it it becomes a really big problem. And like if you look at the statistics statistically, roofers are like two and a half, roofing the roofing industry, it's like two and a half times more likely that you're gonna suffer from or struggle with drug and alcohol addiction, opioid abuse, things like that. And then just as high depression and anxiety are the two big mental health issues that roofers, contractors in general have. So all of those, if you think about it, it's just like holy crap, that is a that's a big number. And my my goal, right, is to just do whatever I can to help create awareness to other companies, contracting companies in general, roofing companies specifically, I guess, but anybody. And just, you know, Paul, Paul always says it. I've I've had conversations with you and Vic. We had one of one of the most poignant conversations I've ever had, podcast last week. Definitely the probably the most deep-rooted conversations I had was when I went to Alamos, Colorado at their rehab center and got to interview four sets of people. I mean, I walked out of the rehab center and Paul and Kim got in the car like it was nothing, like they're used to it. And I brought one of my marketing guys who filmed all the interviews, and they're on LinkedIn, I think, but they all got, they all opened up the truck to get in the truck, and I just stood on the curb and I just did this thing, and I just said, Holy shit. Sorry for bringing God's name in vain or whatever. I was like, holy cow, like wow. And my my eye, I just cried his hysterically because it was so powerful. The the stories I just heard from the four sets of interviews I had just done. It was like a three-hour process. And Paul, big guy, just came up to me and gave me a big bear hug, and he's like, I know, Steve, I know. And it was just like, holy cow, the five and a half hour drive that you and I and Vic had in the car talking about, you know, my my pot gummies to help me go to bed and you're smoking cigarettes and just addiction in general, um, was really poignant to me. So, all that said, I just think it's important, like you're, you know, roofers on a roof or doing a job on a job site. If you and I were on a roof, me, you and Vic were on a roof, I'm not, you know, the stigma is not me going, hey Ty, just so you know, I have a cocaine issue, I have a cocaine problem. I'm not saying that because it's a stigma. I don't want to say it out loud or hey, Ty, I suffer from depression. I'm I I don't want to even get out of bed. But it is a true problem. Statistically speaking, it's the highest in the industry, in all of the industries. And it's just roofing companies, contracting companies, owners. I think it's important to bring that awareness so they understand more than likely someone in their company is suffering from mental health issues or drug and alcohol addiction. What can they do to help support those people?

Ty Cobb Backer: 26:11

Yeah, I love that. I love that, you know, and and with it being, you know, a tough industry in general, it's a lot of tough people out there, a lot of skilled, tough, you know, tough minded. And I think admitting a weakness to another man to like you were talking about, is it's a stigma. Like I didn't want to go to my coworker and say, I'm struggling with right, I don't know, you know, because most guys on the roof would laugh at me. Like, or they would say, Yeah, we we we already knew you're like the last one to find out. That was my case. Um, but but having resources, you know, where people can turn to, because I think that's half the problem that nobody knows where to go for, you know, for help, you know, and I think that not enough because of the stigma around it, not enough of us are out there. I don't want to say screaming from the rooftops, like there is help, but maybe that's what we need to start doing, is is like there is help, there is hope. And if I can do it, so can you, you know, and we need we need the normies, you know, also out there, you know, spreading the news, spreading the word out there, you know, like, yeah, like I've I've been affected by it. So I I know where you're coming from because one of our excuses too, is as as alcoholics or drug addicts, is that you don't know my pain. Yeah, you know, you don't understand, I'm different. You know, and but yeah, yes, but no, you're the same as me, yeah, you know, or I know because I've experienced it with family members. Like, you know what I mean? Like we do understand some there are some normal people out there that can understand, you know, the pains that we go through because we have to experience it with our loved ones, right? And that's that's the thing too. Like, it's not only about them recovering, but we're also putting families back together. Yeah, you know, making dads dads again, because I came to you when I first came to this, right? I was uh unemployable, you know, I wasn't trusted, I was irresponsible. But today I come to you as a father, a grandfather, you know, a son, a brother, a significant other. And I couldn't say those things many years ago. I couldn't say that to you. Yeah, I was completely unreliable. I was non-existent, I was nothing. And that's exactly how I felt. And but there is hope out there. Unfortunately, it takes time. Time takes time, things I must endure, things I must earn. A lot of those things, you know, when when we're talking about building families and building trust, you know, we want to get three days sober and go out there and start making amends, but they're so used to hearing you say I'm sorry, it just falls on deaf ears, you know. And it it time takes time, but the recovery is possible. And that's the important thing. That is the message to get out there that you do deserve it. You know, you do deserve it because there's all these stupid things that we say to ourselves when we're out there going through it. If you only knew what I've done, or if you went through the things that I've gone through, and it's like most of us have, brother.

Stephen Spence: 29:05

My my brother, which is another reason why this hits home for me, is you said it, family members, my brother is a recovering uh uh alcoholic, right? Like he was a bar owner for many years and he struggled mightily. Um, he told his wife one day he got in trouble, right? He acted like a buffoon the night before, and he woke up the next morning. He's like, I'm just not gonna drink for one year, and let's just see how it goes. And then he went to his first AA meeting and literally, like, I asked him three days later, how's it going? He's like, I'm an alcoholic, and the one year thing is over. I need to stop drinking altogether. And it wasn't too far out too long after he decided that that we had a um we do a family thing with my father every year in Massanutton, and we were there, and he was sober for I don't even know how long. Maybe it was a month, maybe it was like a few months. But he like typically we play gate board games all weekend long, right? We have a good family time, but he cussed out my mother in law. He Cussed out his wife. He almost fought me. Like he was, he like face to face, like almost got into blows with me. Um, and it was horrible. And it was like he didn't know how to act sober when when playing a board game, you know, something as simple as that. And I can say three and a half years later, he is a different person. He literally is no longer a bar owner or a financial advisor, which is what he was. He's working at a rehab facility, Ty, and he's helping others. That's awesome.

Ty Cobb Backer: 30:27

That's awesome. I love that. I love that. All right. So I got a question for um, you know, Hope in the Valley, because I know when we first got involved with Roofers and Recovery, they at that time didn't have a facility. They they did have facilities where they could send people. And and back then, not that long ago, it was about $15,000 to send one person to to rehab. Is would you say that's about the same now that they have their own, just with inflation and everything and and good medical attention and stuff like that, still about $15,000?

Stephen Spence: 30:58

About $15,000 for a 28-day stay at a rehab facility. Yes.

Ty Cobb Backer: 31:03

Okay, okay. I just wanted to make sure that I had those stats accurately because that's what I that's what I've been telling people for a while. But then I thought, well, maybe that's changed a little bit, maybe it's gone up, maybe it hasn't gone up.

Stephen Spence: 31:15

As of last year, it was 15 grand. Okay. So as of as early as this year, actually, because I went to hope in the in the valley at the beginning of the year.

Ty Cobb Backer: 31:23

Like so that's our goal. Our goal is to to raise 15, 15 each. Um, I think that's your goal too. Um, to be able to send two people within our industry um to to rehab those that are seeking help, but they got to want it too. Like they're not gonna chase you down, you know, and all those things. And and but you're gonna want it, you're gonna want to know that you're at yeah, you're at your end. And and uh, but it's it it's it's a beautiful thing that this is here. Man, I wish I wouldn't, I probably wouldn't have been ready, you know, for it back then if if um I was gonna say it's a shame that it wasn't around sooner, you know, I'd have probably gone more that direction instead of you know dancing around it for as long as I have, but my ego and pride kept me out there. And uh, you know, pride is pride will kill you, you know, and ego, ego is edging God out. And and I did that for a long time, you know, and and you know, I just I I can't say enough about what they do out there, and like you said, they do it every day. Like this, not that they still don't get inspired by what they do, because that's that literally has become their purpose, right? They just do it at a mass scale, a little, little, a little more, you know, into it. And uh that's we need that. We we really need that, and they need us um to promote it for them and and let people know that there's a place. But um with the golf outing, okay, in instead of you know, or not just the the financial gain that that the rehab will get, um what but what about um the awareness and what what are you what are you hoping for? You know what I mean, outside of raising money, you know, uh in terms of the awareness and the imp impact across the trades? Like what what are you hoping you get out of the golf outing?

Stephen Spence: 33:15

I learn at every golf outing, right? Like you and I had an interview. I bring my microphone and I interview recovering addicts and ask them questions, and then we post that on our socials. We do have a we have a landing page on our website at projectmappet.com that that is starting to get better and better with more resources and stuff like that. Um, ultimately, man, I I see Project Mappet working hand in hand with Roofers in Recovery to really try to create awareness even more. Uh the golf outing was really awesome last year because I was able to do so many interviews. I remember the day was over, the the the sun was setting, and I was on I was on the patio, beautiful landscape uh with Dan Moyer, who helps run my tournament, and he's a recovering addict. And the reason he's a recovering addict is because my brother and him are good friends. And so my brother became recovering, and Dan was like, I want what Dave has, my brother. And it's just cool. It's really to me, it's just so special to see how it how it blossoms, you know, from one person to another to hundreds of people, to thousands of people, right? So uh I like to learn and I'd like to, I'd like to, I do like to film some of that stuff so that I can then promote it on our socials and other and any other platform that will have us through roofers and rec through roofers and recovery relationship, but through sorry, through swing for recovery, it made Paul and Kim go like, hey, this guy really is serious, like he really is an advocate of this. Let's fly him out to Open the Valley. So that opened up an opportunity opportunity for me to learn there, right? If I didn't have swing for recovery, that opportunity would have never happened. We had some really amazing interviews, like amazing interviews. Um and then from there, I you know, honestly, Ty, I would love to see. I'm curious what you think about this. I know that distribution companies, manufacturing companies, I know they sponsor events for bringing awareness to the issues that we've been talking about. Um I I would love to see more. So I say this on every podcast or interview that I'm on is like I know that distribute I will speak directly to distribution companies manufacturers. Why? Because they have the most outreach, right? They, you know, I mean, we we work hand in hand with Certainty. They've been amazing. I'd like to talk about some of the partnerships both of us have with Swing for Recovery, but Certaint has certainly stepped up to the plate all three years for me. And you know, they have, I don't know, let's just say 10,000 contractors that that they can touch point, you know, like these other manufacturers are I mean, hell, like I mean, distribution companies alone, it's tens or hundreds of thousands of contractors. It'd be amazing to see some of these supply companies and manufacturing companies step up even more, uh, not just sponsor events that like Roofers Coffee Shop or Roofers in Recovery or we're doing. I'd love to see because they have the most outreach, right? NRCA has done an amazing job. Kudos to them. I was on a podcast, I wasn't on it, I was watching something that Roofers Coffee Shop was doing. Um, so I I I learned a lot about NRCA, and there was another company on there, and I really wish I knew their name, so I'd give them a shout-out, but I was looking for a note, I don't have it. But there are people out there that have online courses and things like that to help people understand, like roof, like contracting companies understand how they can support and provide resources to their um employees. Paul Reed at his company, they have like five brands or something like that now. It's a big, it's like 500 employees work for you know the companies that Paul Reed is working for, and they have weekly talks. Like every week, all 500 people bring up some sort of message when it comes to awareness. So, like just get it out there, man. Get it out there, and I want to be a part of that. I really do.

Ty Cobb Backer: 37:06

Yeah, no, that's a great response. That was a great response, and I and I I love how you said you want to learn more and surround yourself, get get in the trenches, promote it, bring awareness to people, and and not only you know, with your interviews and stuff like that, they they might with that interview with with with Dan, somebody that he knows, or maybe not directly, but knew who he was when he was out there that might be struggling and may say to themselves, because you did that video with him. Yeah, okay. So you're you're creating uh that that impact by by putting it out there and Dan not being afraid to say, Hey, look, I was once too. You know, and and kudos to him for because it is anonymous, a lot of it's anonymous. Um, but I think you just kind of get to the point where it's kind of like, are we are we hurting are we hurting ourselves because we want to attract more people, right? It's not promotion, it's attract more people over here, like, hey, there's help over here. It is as secretly, you know, and I think it's just been a secret for way too long because it's it's not necessarily for those that need it, it's for those that want it, you know, the these programs. Because if it was for people who needed it, man, it just there wouldn't be enough room in that church basement.

Stephen Spence: 38:27

You know there's a number, there's a number you can call, or just it's like 988 or something. I I can't remember, but you can call and they'll even just they'll send text messages to you. So if you want to kind of be like, I don't want to talk to anybody, but I just want someone out in the world to know that I'm struggling, 988 text, they'll text you back and forth. Like there's so many resources out there that I don't think people realize. Sorry, Ken.

Ty Cobb Backer: 38:51

No, no, no, it's it's good. This is a good, this good. I I didn't know that either. So that's that's good to know. Maybe we should post that in the yeah comments there. But I know um one of my hopes were to invite people to this, not only to to bring awareness and raise money, uh to send somebody there, but I was hoping that there was somebody in the crowd because I was doing a little speech. We do a little, you know, thank you. This is what we raise. But I I was hoping somebody in that crowd out of the hundred and I think we we had over a hundred people there last year. And I was hoping that there was somebody there, a mother, a father, a brother, an uncle that had somebody going through addiction. And now we planted that seed, we allowed them to know, like, hey, we're we're here. Yeah, we're here. That was probably one of that's what kept going through my head. Like, there's got to be somebody out there because I know this impacts, I know this affects every family. Whether it's immediate family or extended family, I know for a fact that that addiction has impacted them in some way, shape, or form. There's got to be that crazy uncle or that that crazy aunt, or my mom, or my dad, or my son, my children, you know, and and that's that that was one of the things that kept going through my head about how how special the reach, the ripple effects that we're creating and and don't even know that our potential correct, you know, the reach that we're potentially having here. So no, it was it was good. And you started to touch on that a little bit, and I just wanted to elaborate that a little more because it's it's much more we're bringing awareness to that, you know, hundred or so crowd that we're bringing into the golf course, and then they're walking away with with swing for recovery swag, they're walking away for roofers and recovery swag, they're walking away with TC Backer stuff, yeah. You know, that now they know who or what to to contact when when a loved one might be going through this, or themselves, or there had to be someone in the crowd that that is struggling with it, yeah. And and know confidently that listen, listen, you nobody needs to know. Just just come come talk to me for a minute. We don't we don't have to let the world know that you're struggling with something that has become you know a stigma, you know, over time. And it's it's it's it's a shame in mental health. It plays hand in hand. Typically, we're we're we're seeking um advice to to to quiet the storm within our minds, and we don't know what we're struggling with anxiety, uh, anxiousness, depression, neurosis, all those things, we don't, we don't know how to handle them, okay, without some form of mind-altering substance. And so we start self-medicating. And then what happens, an addiction develops out of that because we only feel good. But then what happens is over time it stops working because a lot of people don't know this. Alcohol was my solution to everything. I was the problem. The problem started with me in the way that I thought, whether it be a chemical imbalance or post-uh traumatic stress syndrome, what what whatever, however, born with it, not born with it, there was something that that that had me seek out self-medication, and at some point in time it stops working. And and usually when it stops working, that's where the real pain and the real trouble comes about, is when it stops working for me. And it was the it for a long time, it was a solution. It was it was a good day. I drank to make it a better day. It was a bad day, I drank to try to make it a better day. Um, I thought I needed to drink to be sociable. I thought I needed to drink to, you know, be more creative. I thought all of these false um statements that I would I would say to myself were so I mean, I'm more creative now than I've ever been. I am more courageous now than I had ever been, you know, because that's the thing. Just be you can't unpickle a pick a cucumber. You know what I mean? So I'm still crazy. I'm still you are.

Stephen Spence: 42:50

I love I love hanging out with you guys. You guys are crazier, yes, in a more fun way, sober than you are drunk and idiotic.

Ty Cobb Backer: 42:57

Yes, healthy, crazy. We'll go into a restaurant, there could be a handful of us, and I bet they think we're drinking, but we're not because we're just gut laughing, having a good, good, good time, and and and that fellowship and camaraderie, camaraderie, and surrounding yourself around other people who love you for who you are and and understand who you are and how you tick and why you tick that way.

Stephen Spence: 43:19

It's just an amazing feeling. So, I'll tell a funny. I don't know, do we have what when do we end? Is it one o'clock?

Ty Cobb Backer: 43:25

We we got yeah, we got about 15 minutes.

Stephen Spence: 43:27

Okay, so real quick then I my my favorite TC Backer story is uh we were at some expo, I can't remember which one, sharing a booth with you, and I had told you all I wanted to take you all out. And it was like what eight of you at that one at that table. So I had budgeted ahead of time. I hope my partner Ryan doesn't hear this, but um, because I spend money too easily, I know I gotta get better at that. So I took you guys out and I budgeted like 1200 bucks. I was like, okay, I'm taking like eight, ten of them out. I mean, I gotta have the money, so I'm gonna budget. And just so everybody knows I have a hearing aid, that's why I keep picking my ear. I'm putting it back in. Um, troubles of being old. So we get to the restaurant, we're having a great time. You guys are idiots, just like me. It was fun. I'm sure exactly like you just said, the waiters probably like this, they're all just drunk and stupid, but they're the ones giving us the stuff, so they know we're not drunk and stupid because we're getting waters and teas and cokes. Um, and at the end of the night, that bill was 300 bucks. I got that bill, and I'm like, I mean, I've taken people, I've taken four people out, and the bill was 1200 bucks. I'm taking 10 people out and it was 380 bucks. So I gave that waiter like a 900 tip because the budget of 1200. And I'm like, let's just do this. And the waiter was beside him or herself. I couldn't remember that, but I just remember like, you guys are the cheapest people to ever take out because you don't buy freaking alcohol, right? Brilliant.

Ty Cobb Backer: 44:49

Yeah, and how do you think our wallets feel today?

Stephen Spence: 44:52

Yeah, right, totally, yeah, 100%.

Ty Cobb Backer: 44:55

Yeah, yeah. No, that that's just one of many blessings of not drinking, you know, and and wanting to take care of your body better, like you mentioned earlier when we were coming up the road, you know, just wanting to take care of ourselves better mentally, spiritually, and and physically, you know, and that's really what it's about. Your body's a temple. And if I'm not taking care of myself, I can't take care of other people. And it starts with putting a drink down.

Stephen Spence: 45:21

So with 15 minutes left, 10 minutes left, can we can we can we talk about? I just want to bring up because I'm curious what you think. I just want to I want to provide some insight, whatever. And we've already talked about a lot of it, but just to kind of summarize the this, right? Like if I could offer any advice from things that I've learned over the last three years from talking to people in the industry about this specific topic, in your company, if you're a contractor, have conversations, have team conversations with your employees. And honestly, I don't know exactly what that conversation looks like exactly, but you can reach out to Roofers in Recovery because they can they can guide you on exactly what kind of questions. Like it can be like a five-minute, 10-minute just check-in with your employees when you're on a team meeting, you know, your weekly or monthly team meetings, and roofers in recovery, you can reach out to Kim. Kim Reid probably is the one, but Paul as well. Paul will answer any phone call or text in a heartbeat. But I would encourage every contractor to have a team meeting or during your team meetings, bring up the awareness. Because let's just say, more than likely it's not the case, right, Ty, but let's just say, let's say I'm a smaller company and I have eight people in my my roofing company, and none of them drink, or none of them are, none of them have an addiction problem. You already said it, Ty said it. Like out of those eight people, they know 20 people. That's 160 people now. Somebody is suffering. So now giving them some resources or being able to talk about it might give them the courage to talk to their best friend about it because their best friend is having a problem. So that would be the first thing I'd I'd recommend. Like, just get it, have the conversations. They can be five-minute conversations, but have them with your team.

Ty Cobb Backer: 47:04

Yeah, no, that's good.

Stephen Spence: 47:06

That's what do you do you have any? I mean, I have other things, but do you have any advice?

Ty Cobb Backer: 47:11

Um I don't mean too much on it. I like that. No, no, no, I like that. And we should probably we should probably bring that up a little more often, but I think my doors are always open. I've that and I know that for a fact because we've we've helped uh quite a few people over the years um that have came to me in private and um hey, I'm struggling, and you know, they kind of go MIA, we kept it on a DL, you know. Um they they already had planned vacation when they was usually shortly after they started here. Yep, you know, so it kind of worked out where it's like, yeah, they already had a planned vacation, and nobody realizes it's like 28 days. Like, no one, I don't think I've ever had anybody come up to me and be like, yo, where's so-and-so been for the past 28 days? Um, and we've helped out, you know, because we were in a we were in a position where we could actually help them out while they were there. Um, so I think if you're in a in a position to be able to do that, you know, I I highly encourage it because, you know, the thing about us alcoholics, it only takes one of us to outwork three people. And that is a statistical fact. You know, we we our threshold for pain is much higher than than most people because we you will not throw anything at me that I have not already put myself through in a more stressful situation. Okay. So, you know, I would I would strongly suggest um, you know, and we've we've done a second chance program where we pull people out on on work release for from prisons, have been the best employees because they have to show up on time.

Stephen Spence: 48:38

I like that.

Ty Cobb Backer: 48:39

Um, you know, and they they have turned out to to be the best people. We have some that that that made it, we have some that haven't made it, but that's that's okay. But that's that's kind of our purpose, that's kind of our cause. So um halfway houses, rehabs, and and prison work release programs is a good place to, you know, because I hear people all the time say, Well, I can't find enough labor. Well, have you checked with your local county prison? Yeah, there's a lot of roofers in jail. We we talked about why earlier. The the the mental health issues that they're not receiving in prisons. Okay. You know, it's it's supposed to be a correctional facility, but putting them behind bars is not correcting anything. The isolation, um, it I'm not saying that there's not programs in jail, but it's it's not a huge focus. It's something that you gotta want to do, and and you gotta go through a lot of channels to even get to an AA meeting because there's not enough support of us out here going in there and bringing the message message into jails. But um, that's a whole nother podcast for another day. But um go ahead.

Stephen Spence: 49:42

Resources, right? So have a meeting. We've already covered that. Ty just covered a really cool idea, which I love. Yeah, resources would be you can reach out to me. I probably won't know the right answer right away, but I certainly can get you in touch with the people that would. So reach out to Steve Spence, reach out to Ty Backer, he can easily do the same. But organizations, NRCA, they really have a lot of cool support and know a lot of resources and companies that they've used. They've really made a big push to bring awareness. Roofers Coffee Shop is a big one, and obviously Roofers in Recovery. So, like me, Ty, Roofers Coffee Shop, Roofers in Recovery, NRCA, those are all great resources to reach out to if you want, if you want to learn how you can reach more people in your company.

Ty Cobb Backer: 50:27

Yeah, and I'm gonna break a couple of people's anonymity here because I'm sure they're not gonna mind. But uh, you know, Victor Uri is another going to reach out to. It got me a little choked up. Um, and uh my my like my wife, Jana Backer, you know, if you're a female and uh you're in the industry, out of the industry doesn't really matter. She has devoted her complete life to recovery. She she helps a lot of women on a day-to-day, daily basis, seven days a week. Um, I know her her morning is full. Um, with that, taking care of you know, other women and and giving them advice and pointing them in the right direction and and also taking care of our our grandchild. That has become her her life's mission is to give back. And um, you know, so put putting that out there. And so that holds me accountable to keeping my head out of my ass because I've surrounded my entire life, evolves, I work with people, I live with people, you know, that are in recovery, and it and it's a cool, it's a cool uh it's not a cult, but it's a cool atmosphere to to be in today around all of these people who have been through hell. And and that's the thing, it's not a religious program. None of these programs are religious. I'm sure there's religious organizations out there that have recovery programs, but we look at it as a spiritual program with spiritual principles, and and religion is is for people who are afraid to go to hell, but spiritual Audi is is for those of us who have been there. So if you're putting yourself through hell and and everybody else through hell, um give us a call. Text me, message me, DM me, Victor Ure, Janabacker, Steven Spence, or Ty Backer. I mean, I'm not scared. I'm not I, you know, I'm not afraid. If you knew who I was before, um, I I don't live with that on my shoulder on my sleeve anymore. I used to have a complex of you, if they really knew who I was, you know, but um I screw them, you know, because today we're making anything.

Stephen Spence: 52:29

Right there though, nobody's gonna everybody appreciates every single thing you just said. Everybody. And you're but and you're vulnerable enough to admit that you are a recovering addict and that you struggle. I struggle mightily with anxiety. I never knew that until I started seeing a therapist. I've seen a therapist, I'll admit that. I've been every other week. I see I see doc I see my doc every other week, and it's been for three years, and I learned a lot about myself. One of which is I actually funny enough, I'm like a big, big like I can get in front of anybody and meet anybody and be best friends with them by the end of the night. And I'm very outgoing, but I struggle mightily with anxiety when I'm in front of a lot of people, to be totally honest with you. It's it's I'm an I'm it's weird, but I struggle with it. So I have issues. Um, so thank you for sharing that. I really, it means a lot. I I think we should also talk about the people that are supporting our our different uh our different golf events. Like I if I can take a second to say thank you to some of our sponsors, like um, I I gotta give shout out, huge shout out to Certain Teed. I mean, these guys have Scott DeGrosso specifically, he's one of the first Certain Teed people I met in my local area. He's now like a district territory manager, but um Certain Teed not only financially backs us big time with a pretty big financial thank you, but they I literally they send me boxes upon boxes of golf swag, golf bags, Arctic coolers, uh like everything. Like literally, they probably drop like five grand on things that I can use as swag material. ABC Supply, one of our partners, stepped up big time. They're bringing lots of foursoms and are bringing a ton of hats and just really appreciate those guys and ladies. Uh, engage. They've been a part of ours forever. They were a big uh they're our 13-step dinner sponsor, Roofer. I don't know, I don't know if you've ever gotten these. I don't know if you have them for your golf warrant. They're called like um uh what do you what do you call what do you call they're like sticks that you can pick up golf balls as you're driving the golf cart? It's like a scramble stick, I think. They sent me some really cool swag uh roofer, and they also sponsored a for some uh Presto Media, and then a ton of our own customers, like Peak Roofing, Pow Roofing, Tar Heel, Arnold Roofing, these are all guys that either want to support Project Map It and my you know love for the cause or they struggle. Like I've had people email me and say, Hey, I'm I'm throwing this $1,500 sponsor because I am a recovering addict and I love what you're doing. So, on top of that, all my customers uh are doing some cool things. We have like this sponsorship called PMI Caddy support. And I may, in fact, I don't this is not the right one, but you'll have one of these tonight. So yard sign, but like everyone that's a project map at customer, I'm I we built a sign like that that basically says thanks for your support. And I'm putting all the signs up on the first hole. So there's right now we have 40. I'm hoping to get like 80, but imagine 40 signs on the first hole, and those are just project map at my own customers that are saying thank you and for for you know doing this cause, so supporting this cause. So that's my I just I just wanted to give them big shout outs because they all deserve it.

Ty Cobb Backer: 55:32

Yeah, yeah. You know, and this is you know, Project Map, it's becoming your vehicle to have an impact.

Stephen Spence: 55:37

Yeah.

Ty Cobb Backer: 55:38

You know, and that's that's how we see our the roofing industry, TC Backers become the vehicle for us to have an impact, not just with recovering people, but less fortunate people in our community, and and and sometimes even being able to give people jobs, not just food, not just money, but but our time and volunteering and and things like that, because time is is the most valuable possession. Um, so giving your time, it's not always about breaking out the checkbook, it's about volunteering with with some of these events, like you know, uh swing for recovery, the 21 Turkey. You know, it's it's it's just coming out there and and the gratitude is overwhelming, you know, especially if you've been on the streets and you've lived on the streets and you didn't know where you're gonna get your next fresh pair of of dry socks from. You know, that's things that we don't even think about when we're out in the freezing cold and our feet are wet, soaking wet, and we know it's gonna get even colder tonight, you know. Um, just things that we we tend to take for granted, going home and having a washing machine or a sock drawer full of, you know, socks and and things like that. The things that unless you've been where we've been, you know, you don't think about how important those things can be to people that um, you know, are usually mentally struggling, you know, with mental illnesses that just can't just can't figure it out, can't get can't get out of their own way. You know, it's not they're it's not that they're lazy, it's not that they're it's just they can't they didn't have the opportunity or the resources available to them or whatever the case might be. And it's it's not for me to judge. I just know how I got there. Um, and most of it was was self-induced stuff. But a lot of these people that are on the streets living right now are it's it's not self-induced. It's just kind of where they ended up and had nowhere else to go. And and it's a shame. But um, no, I love it. This is this has been an an amazing uh episode. We're we're getting down to the wire here. But uh, you know, Steve, thank you. Thank you for everything that you do. And and not not only sharing, you know, how Project Map It is helping contractors win, but but for standing alongside and supporting roofers in recovery. Um if anybody wants to make a difference, get involved with our upcoming swing for recovery event. Um, every dollar raised goes towards helping people, every dollar, every single dollar. If we raise $30,000, that $30,000 outside of covering some expenses for the golf course, and and um that's pretty much it. Unfortunately, that's pretty much one of our largest uh the food for ours has been donated by um I'm not gonna say um well I might as well plug in uh Mark Jones, um, JCL uh vending um is donating the food. I mean, like this a lot of people want to want to know how to get involved, and and uh so many people want to get involved with stuff, but don't know how either. You know, and it's and and uh so but anyhow, um we're gonna put a couple links in here. I saw Jimmy Hammond put his link in there. Um, so I know Jimmy's in there. Um, I know he's got one coming up in the indie. Um October 27th.

Stephen Spence: 58:44

He is he's he's gonna do it. Jimmy's gonna do it. He's got some foreshams, he's got some sponsorships coming his way. I wish I could go out there. I'm gonna be somewhere on his on his day, unfortunately.

Ty Cobb Backer: 58:55

Yeah, unfortunately, we won't make it either.

Stephen Spence: 58:56

Love you, Jimmy.

Ty Cobb Backer: 58:57

We'll put we'll post the links, whether you want to donate, register to play, sponsor, whatever the case might be. Every dollar, every dollar helps. And and of course, make sure you uh subscribe to Beyond the Tool Belt. I it would wouldn't be proper if I didn't plug Beyond the Toolbelt a little bit here. Follow, share, like, love, comment. You got any questions? Um, you don't want to put them in the comments about the topic today, please hit me up in my DM. Hit Steven up, hit Jan up, hit Jimmy up, hit uh you know, Paul, Kimberly, Victor, any of us, hit us up. Even if uh anybody in the comments right now, I think pretty much are are people that are our people. Um, even if they're not in recovery, they're still our people. And they'll get you in the right, they'll they'll point you in the right direction. So I think Steven left us. Not sure. There he is.

Stephen Spence: 59:52

Can you see me? Yep, we can now. I was trying to I was trying to comment. I never logged into Facebook. I didn't even see the comments. until just now.

Ty Cobb Backer: 1:00:01

Oh. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. All good stuff. So uh thank you, Steven. And I look forward to seeing you in a couple weeks.

Stephen Spence: 1:00:09

Appreciate you, brother. We'll see you, Victor, soon. Yep.

Ty Cobb Backer: 1:00:13

See you guys. Have a great day.

Stephen Spence: 1:00:15

Take care.