Ty Cobb Backer: 0:00

maybe, oh, when we are live. Welcome back everybody to beyond the tool belt, episode 292. I am your host, taika backer. Thank you for joining us on this wednesday edition, and we will be right back after our short intro from our sponsor.

Speaker 2: 0:32

Welcome to Behind the Tool Belt, where the stories are bold, the conversations are real and the insights come to you live, raw and uncut. Every week, host Ty Cobb-Ber sits down to bring you the stories, the struggles, the lessons learned and the wins. No filters, no scripts, just the truth. Please welcome your host of behind the tool belt, ty cobb backer.

Ty Cobb Backer: 0:58

Hey, hey, and we are back. Welcome back to behind the tool belt where we talk with builders, branders and big thinkers shaping the trades and beyond. Today's guest is a powerhouse in the world of marketing. He's helped hundreds, if not thousands, of contractors grow their businesses and also has built a dominant agency in the roofing space, and now he's dropping a blueprint for becoming unforgettable in your own backyard. He is the founder of hook agency and the host of hook better lead how to become, and now has a brand new book on how to become a hometown hero. This one's about sorry, I feel like I got this freaking. I'll tell you what it's about. Sorry, I feel like I got this fricking. I'll tell you what it's about if you want, yeah.

Ty Cobb Backer: 1:48

It's about what the hell it's about. I have no idea what it's about. Real quick, it's just about.

Tim Brown: 1:52

It's about getting stickier in your local tightest possible area. So a lot of people try to go really broad really quick and this one is about getting really tight on them the space that you're trying to market to. And then it's about emotional things that make you stickier, and it's got 27 people in it that know the topic from each chapter really really well. I found the best person at that particular topic and got them to speak on it, so it's got a lot of people's stories in it and just a lot of cool people. Roofing and other home services, so plumbing and HVAC. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Thank you.

Ty Cobb Backer: 2:33

And it's like a real book. It's a real book it feels like a real book.

Tim Brown: 2:37

Yeah, it's a real book.

Ty Cobb Backer: 2:39

Well, I was hesitant because, I thought no, it's a book by Tim Brown, hesitant because I thought, no, it's a book by tim brown.

Tim Brown: 2:46

I was like what kind of book? No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, you know what could this possibly be? And the funny thing is is like it's good, it's better than I deserve.

Tim Brown: 2:51

Because because of those 27 people that are in it. It's better than I deserve as far as like how good the ideas are in here and there's just literally you'll just get, you'll go through it and you'll both have a little bit of a change of the way you're thinking about your marketing, like a bigger change, and there's a bunch of little tactics to use right away. So I hope people check out the book. But we can talk about whatever today. We don't have this sit and talk about that's good.

Ty Cobb Backer: 3:16

That's good. No, I love it because it it's more than just about marketing. It's about impact, influence and what it takes to earn legendary status in your community. Yeah, you know what I mean, so you're a great example of this.

Tim Brown: 3:28

You're a really good example. That's why you're in the book, that's why ty's in the book. But there's a bunch of other people that are kind of like ty and that they're awesome and they're really good at these local marketing tactics and like involving yourself, being involved that's what that's. A lot of. It's around being involved and you're such a great example of being involved. I got really challenged by a ton of the people that shared in the book, like I was like damn, we could be doing more.

Ty Cobb Backer: 3:53

Yeah, no for sure. There's a lot of great people in the book. You interviewed a ton of you know people that have major impact and influence. Not just you know people that have major impact and influence not just you know, it's so much that they actually impact our industry as a whole, not just their, their local communities, cause you got man, I like, uh, like the the biggest, heaviest hitters that that are possibly, you know, in our industry, and I love that, love that about it. So I do want to talk about your book, cause I have a bunch of questions. I'm sure some of our, our viewers, have questions for you too, and it's like, you know, um, like what? I guess my biggest question or my first question for you would be like what, what inspired you to to write this book and why? Now?

Tim Brown: 4:40

Yeah, I think you know it's funny, like as a CEO, I'm a CEO, right, and it's interesting because, as I start to become, I'm going to be starting to move away actually from our own marketing even and being as involved, because it's just that's what happens, right, because you have to be a stakeholder in your business, you have to actually be an executive, like you have to execute, you have to, like make the decisions, and it's a lot and you have to be a leader, like just be a great leader, right, that's what I'm moving towards and I wanted to kind of capture some of this stuff before I kind of push off from just pure marketing Cause. Now we've got a marketing manager and she's got a videographer and I'm just trying to like almost like capture everything I can. I'm gonna get better as a communicator, I'm like I'm probably gonna learn some things about a marketer as a marketer, but I think, like right now I'm still just on the end of my, like me, marketing this business as the primary marketer. So I wanted to like almost capture everything and then also just like make something that involved a ton of our community, which is like the roofing and home services space, like.

Tim Brown: 5:57

So this is like a community effort book, which, uh, was fun. It was a way to connect with people. It's good for our marketing, obviously, but I think at the end of the day, like it's also a fun thing to try to. It's fairly cheap for how much? That's the crazy thing about books we forget Books. Somebody's trying to distill everything that's really good that they know into 200 pages. It's crazy what you can discover reading. Okay, I'm a big reader, so I'm not writing a book out of a place of like I haven't.

Tim Brown: 6:32

Literally half of our success is probably partly from books. The other half is from just doing shit and working 70 hours a week and all that right, yeah, but like reading a lot of books and like absorbing information has been a big piece of that. So it's kind of like a giving back thing too, because it's fairly cheap. Right, the paperback is like going to be 14 bucks on Amazon or something, but it's actually stuffed. It's actually stuffed with the best information and we're kind of it's almost like borderline giving it away. It's almost like borderline giving it away Because it's like each book sold is like three, four bucks in my pocket or something.

Tim Brown: 7:08

It's like I'm not worried about those three or four bucks. I want to get as many of these out there as I possibly can, because I do believe there is something about if you're able to give away value to a lot of people. So let's say we have 130 clients or whatever, but if I'm able to, like, impact a thousand people through this book, that would be. It'd be cooler to be able to help more people. That would be really cool.

Ty Cobb Backer: 7:35

Yeah for sure. No, and that's what's really all about. I mean, you know, it sounds like you're, you're on this uh, this leadership journey of trying to sharpen and hone those skills and stuff like that, and that's that's what. That's what it's about. It's the impact. That's that's where the, the wealth and the success really live in that space, not the three or $4 off each book, but the, the individuals that you are impacting from your book, with your book, is where the true wealth and success come from. And every thousand people there's probably another third, three, three more people that you're also impacting, that you have no idea that you're impacting. So if you have 130 clients that all bought a book, that's at least 200 or 390 people that you, that you've impacted, essentially because whether they're regurgitating something that they heard in the book and sharing it with somebody else, or they shared your book with them, like that ripple effect's a lot bigger than I think we we discovered, or that we know, like our like, there's people that are going to watch this podcast today, that didn't subscribe to the youtube channel, don't follow me on social media, but have watched it, and we have no idea how many people were, even what country it's in and same same with your book and you're doing but, by the way, you're doing an amazing job promoting the crap out of this book.

Ty Cobb Backer: 8:53

You were so creative and so unique in in your ways of promoting book and the five minute cold tub challenge, you know. And then 500 bucks towards your local charitable place is it's brilliant, you know. And then 500 bucks towards your local charitable place is it's brilliant, you know cause. Then you're on social media. You're captivating audiences, you know. You challenged me, I challenged two people. They're both going to do it, and I don't even know how many people you've challenged and how many people, though those people are challenging. So, having said all that, think of that small little ripple effect that you've created that one day you decided to do a five minute cold plunge, like that's at least 30, 25, 20, 30 people right there.

Tim Brown: 9:31

Yeah, and I think it's like a total like seven. After today it'll be like 18 000 given too. So that's it's and it's local charities. It's been really fun too. It's just, I think, for some reason, when you're in the cold plunge, like I'm always like.

Tim Brown: 9:49

I remember doing a 15 minute cold plunge with david carroll and I remember he was like trying to get me to stay in there. It's like one of my first times doing it. He, I stayed in there for 15 minutes. I remember like looking him dead in the eyes. We're like facing each other in two cold plunges and I was like we gotta make positivity louder. Man, you know, like we were, just like I was.

Tim Brown: 10:10

I had to like go into a different realm to stay in there that long, and part of it was like I, I getting clear, getting hyper clear on what I'm trying to do in the world, and I, I, for some reason. I think cold plunge kind of unlocks that for me, and not sometimes it's just stressful, but sometimes it unlocks like my, my, like what do I want to do? Man? Cause I want to like, I want to make, I want to make positivity louder, so it's just so. It's so obvious that like negativity takes over the feeds on social and stuff like that. But it's our job, it's my responsibility to unfollow, unfriend I'm not saying in a toxic way, but I'm saying when there's people doing negative stuff all the time and focus on what do I want to bring to the world, what's positive, how can I elevate people, how can I make their lives a little better? How can I make?

Tim Brown: 11:06

I think even the best way to think about is like my community, a direct community, and for me, part of that is roofing. Like roofing is my direct, tiniest community, right like it's huge, 110 000 companies in the united states. But, um, my direct, tight community, and I think we can all look at that now. Minneapolis is my, also my direct community. Like can we focus on a tighter area and see if we can make a little bit of a real impact? Because it is hard to make a real impact in the world and I I'm I'm kind of direct, I'm like really conscious of that, I'm really conscious of how short life is and like how it's going to be gone tomorrow and I want to. I would love it if I end this life where people actually like cared about me and and also that I made somebody's life a little tiny bit better. That's like I just. I'm just a little too conscious of how short this whole thing is.

Ty Cobb Backer: 12:06

Yeah, yeah, I think that's a natural thought for anybody, he, you know, for all of us that are getting a little bit older and that have older parents, and some of us who have parents who have passed away at some point in time. You know cause I never used to worry about you know how short life was. I'm like you know, I got 90 years left, and it's like the older I get, it's like holy shit, I might only have like 30, 20, 30 years left, and so, and that's the thing too, the older I get too, it's like that's one thing I will never get back. It's like, okay, yeah, I can chase money, but how much longer, you know, would I have on this earth if I, if that was, my main focus was just chasing money or spending time with my family, right, and and really absorbing that time, you know, with and being surrounded by those that I love.

Ty Cobb Backer: 12:54

I find that more valuable today than I have ever had, only because I do know how precious time is and that we're only here for a short amount of time. But while we're going to be here, we do want to have the largest impact, the most impact that we can possibly have on every single person, because that is true legacy. You know, it's not necessarily the, the cars, the trucks, the toys, the business that we might leave behind. That that is your, your legacy. Your legacy is how you make people feel, how you've made them felt, how you made them feel and they're still talking about like that Tim was just a great human being and if it wasn't for him or evil.

Tim Brown: 13:37

Every one of us is a villain in someone's story. You know what I mean. I think it's just being conscious of that and, as somebody who's had his own little form of redemption, you know what I mean. Like, yeah, I don't think I, I think it's just being conscious of that and as somebody who's had his own little form of redemption, you know what I mean. I have to. I have to say it hasn't always been like that right, like I I've. I feel like I sometimes tie just to go deep for a second. It's like you know, you are sorry, I'm gonna speak as me I've had times in my life where I wasn't as I wasn't trying as hard to do the right thing right, and so sometimes I feel like I'm just, yeah, I've felt like I was just living down karma by trying to do some good things for the world, because I'm like I gotta, I gotta undo some of this stuff.

Tim Brown: 14:25

Like that party, like I'm not even saying partying is bad, but you know, like some of the things I did when I was partying, like not being, not treating people as good as I'd like to, so some of it was like living that down. I hope I'm past living that down now and now it's just an abundance thing and life is good and I do feel like there's so many good things going on that I must have done something right. But for a while there it was just like lived in some of this karma, bro, like I gotta, I gotta do some positive things to offset some of the negative things you know. So that just being real about that.

Ty Cobb Backer: 14:59

Yeah, no, I can relate to that too. I think one, one of the things why I got into, you know, charitable events and I got into charitable events and becoming what I hope someday a hometown hero was because I felt like I needed to make a lot of wrongs right and that I owed it to society. I owed it to my parents, and it's like I feel like at one point in time I was going a little overboard where it almost became like a job, and then I spread myself too thin and now I'm kind of like in that place where it's kind of like okay, now I can scale this back a little bit. I think, morally, I've done a lot of these living amends that I needed to make. I still make mistakes, I still owe people, you know, an apology every now and then, but I catch it a lot quicker because this thing too, I want to live a good life, I want to live a life of peace and I don't want to, you know, feel awkward around people and I'm not saying that there isn't people that don't snatch my spirit, and I know me enough today that sometimes I do need to avoid people, places, things and situations because it will snatch my spirit.

Ty Cobb Backer: 15:57

They're like an energy vampire those places sometimes. And it's like I do, because I do want to live on like that. That energy bus, right, and I want passengers on that bus with me on this journey that we're on and I want to radiate energy. I actually switched my my signature on my email to CEO and not for chief executive officer but for chief energy officer, because that is my job today. I am the guy that spreads the energy, whether it's good or bad, right, and I got to be real conscious of what, what form of energy I'm radiating on a day-to-day basis, even with my family, the closest people in my life. I know I can turn a room dark or I can lighten that thing up like a Roman candle in a good way.

Ty Cobb Backer: 16:42

So I know that about me. I know I'm very impactful, whether it's negative or positive, and I'm very aware of that today, but that's where I get my fulfillment from right. If somebody comes into my office and they have an issue and they're having a bad day, like I want them leaving the office in a better space than they were before they came into my office, because I used to be the guy that if they screwed something up one they probably I was very unapproachable. Um, I would have lost my shit. Not that I still don't have a moment every now and then, but I've learned to be able to pick and choose my battles better. I think, um, and and you know you were you were talking about the one thing leadership and you're talking about you know, your business is in a good place and it's like I've been in business and I'm going to I'm going to switch the subject here a little bit, but it sounds like you are in a peacetime, right, like peacetime. So there's peacetime leadership and there's wartime leadership.

Ty Cobb Backer: 17:38

Yeah, when you're in business long enough because businesses go through ebbs and flows.

Tim Brown: 17:43

Yeah, it's great when you're kind of like on that pink cloud in business where everything just oh, yeah, I mean last year, because you, we, we and I talked about this last year like, yeah, election year, bro, I have, I actually had it in my calendar, or I put it in my calendar now. I have it in my calendar now for the beginning of an election year. I think you. You said that to me on the on the trip we did and I have that now. So, yeah, but it was like preparing yourself preparing yourself.

Ty Cobb Backer: 18:17

Yeah For, for, for wartime leadership, because that's when you you have to pivot and you have to be way proactive. You can't react to an election year. If you're, I need to start doubling down now, you know. I mean, and not wait till january 1st and then the inauguration is over, and then decide I'm going to start marketing like you got. That's that. That was my whole point. Was is like once I have identified some ebbs and flows over the years and anything. I've learned this too anything can affect the economy. Anything, something that is posted on social media, something that's all over the news, it doesn't necessarily have to do with, um, politics necessarily. Um, it can, it could do with. I mean, all sorts of things can affect the economy but, go ahead everyone gets really, uh like over analyzing.

Tim Brown: 19:16

I think too in those I mean just overthinking stuff. Right, because they're like, because we're, it's pretty negative to the news cycle. It gets very negative during election year, so it's just like so, anyways, I'm prepping for that next time. Okay, and the funny thing is is like we had like a 20 30 growth. So I don't know what I was complaining about, but it was like when you prepare for a lot of growth, like when you, when you hire ahead, and then you're like like you hired too much, and then you're like so that happens. I feel like that's.

Tim Brown: 19:51

I talked to a bunch of entrepreneurs where they did the same thing, where they're like they're hiring for a bunch of growth and then, if it doesn't happen like that, they're just kind of upset because we're not promised anything. Right Like, as an entrepreneur, there's there's no current like, you can do all the things right, but there's things outside of your control, which is something I'm just learning in business. I mean, I've known in life for a while. Right Like, but there's things outside of my control. It doesn't mean I have a bad business, but there's cycles and larger patterns that affect my business, whether or not I want them to and I do like the phrase I I've talked to this big hx sales guy. He says I never participate in a bad economy I love that.

Tim Brown: 20:37

However, it's like not even always about economy, it's just like apprehension for purchases. It's just that that cycle, we don't know, and like the bigger your business is, I think, the bigger it's like you don't get to just like slap a little motor on the back of this thing and then like go fast, right, it's crazy how big the motor has to be on a big boat yeah, no, and you're absolutely right.

Ty Cobb Backer: 21:04

It's harder to reel things in the the larger that that it is and you know your team has a lot to to to do with it too like if you got to pivot, and pivot quick. Um, your leadership plays a big, huge role in in that, and Jocko Willing talks about decentralized command. If we have over a hundred coworkers at any given time, okay, if they all had to wait for me to make decisions, you know, like I don't know when is this getting? I don't know. I'm waiting on Ty to get back from vacation before I can, or whatever the case might be, that bottlenecks the entire business and fortunately I I had just got to experience one of one of our leaderships that was a bottleneck at one of our locations, so I actually got to see myself in somebody else.

Ty Cobb Backer: 21:54

I I'm going, we're going through some some transitioning right now, and I got to to reflect on, you know where, where some of the ebbs were and where some of the flows were, like what was good, what was bad, and and where what it came down to was is, first and foremost, I didn't set clear enough expectations, a timeline, a budget.

Ty Cobb Backer: 22:14

So I looked at the to see where I played a part in this, or not necessarily part, but what could I have done differently? And then I also got to reflect upon what what the other party may have been doing wrong, and a lot of that had to do with trust and and setting um and and and instilling and empowering other people to make decisions, and all of the decisions rested upon this person's shoulders. Well, there was no growth, there was no expansion. There was, there was like it just completely got super stale and everybody kept saying, well, so-and-so, so busy. I'm waiting on an answer. I haven't heard from him for two weeks. We don't know where he's at, he hasn't gotten back to us yet and it's like it all came.

Ty Cobb Backer: 23:04

It all stemmed from one individual that everybody was waiting on to just make a decision and everyone's just kind of like sitting around waiting what, not trying to figure out what to do, and I got to um, actually sit back and and see myself in another human being. It's like God and it was a reminder because I haven't led that way necessarily. Now there are certain things that don't. You know, that, that I make decisions on Um, but nobody's necessarily, I don't think, waiting around.

Ty Cobb Backer: 23:30

you know where we're holding up a couple million dollars or you know we're screwing over a homeowner because you know they're waiting on me to make a decision. You know, and I think that's where a lot of businesses stunt their growth is because it's kind of like they're running it and they're trying to wear too many hats and everyone's kind of sitting around waiting for them to make a decision.

Tim Brown: 23:50

I think that this is a really interesting, fun topic for me. I hope it's interesting for a few people out there, but I think about there's this threshold for a few people out there. But like, yeah, I think about like this there's this threshold for a marketing company it might be five million. Roofing company might be 10 million. Like there's. Once you go past this certain threshold, there has to be executive decision making, there has to be good decision makingmaking, and yet the dedicate time you know what I mean Like you always have to, but like, at a certain point it's a real job. Right, like we played CEO plus 10 other things for a long time. Right, like we did that. You have to do that too. That's real.

Ty Cobb Backer: 24:30

Oh yeah.

Tim Brown: 24:35

You better. You better not think I'm going to only work on the business and not in the business. You got to work in the business and on the business and around the business and underneath the business and above the business when you're early. But as time goes on, I'm realizing like it's a real job, like CEO is a real job and I can't I I probably will pass it off at some point but like I need to actually do the job to see.

Tim Brown: 24:54

Yeah, so we had like an uh, you know, a leadership planning meeting yesterday and and you've talked about this to me before, but it's pretty far in advance we're making decisions for a year from now about what's changing and what we're doing, and we made the decision. It's not just talking about it, it's getting everybody on board and the leadership and then making a decision and making sure everyone's excited about it. Right, like so it's crazy. I mean, you got to make decisions right and there's, like they, there's a ton of data. Well, shit, I don't know the actual data, but I've seen that there's a ton of data supposedly about people that make decisions. It definitely helps your success, like if you're capable of just making decisions, because there's wrong decisions and there's right decisions, but there's nothing worse than no decision.

Ty Cobb Backer: 25:45

Yeah.

Ty Cobb Backer: 25:46

Yeah, and not making a decision is is making a decision, and that's where that's where things kind of just get stale. You know, I had a. I had a good example. It's like it's not like, yes, we have to make decisions, but we also have to allow other people to make decisions, just because we decided that we're going to go in another direction. Well, there's a lot of things that have to happen in order for us to go to a certain direction, and I have to empower people to make sure that that happens, which means they're going to have to make decisions and build SOPs and track KPIs and all those things.

Ty Cobb Backer: 26:20

Like just because I made the decision doesn't mean I'm going to recreate the fricking SOP book, Doesn't mean that I'm going to, you know, design a whole, you know new matrix for the KPI dashboard. I'm not going to. You know what I mean. I'm not going to do those things. So I have to allow them to make those decisions. On what kpis like? I might have a suggestion like make sure you track these kpis because these are things that I want to look at but I'm not in their department. So there may be other kpis that they need to look at and I'm not going to dictate that, because they're the ones on the front line that have to use it every single day, and that's what I mean by like empowering someone to make a mistake and

Ty Cobb Backer: 26:56

this is what the cool part about it which could also be a catch-22 is is that they're going to make mistakes. Okay, and I actually said that's the cool part about it, because the only way that they're going to learn the only way that I've ever learned was screwing a lot of shit up, so unfortunately, we have to leave enough room. Deal with it later. Okay, you messed up, cool, no problem. What did we learn from it? What are we gaining from this right now?

Ty Cobb Backer: 27:18

Shit, we need to create another kpi dashboard. Shit, we need to add another page into the sop you know book that we have. And it's like all these things, and that's where sops get born, that's where they get developed. Like, okay, we got to document this, so I don't ever do it again. And by having it documented, it's so much easier to empower, to trust, because now it's more than hearsay. Well, I thought I told you to do it this way. Oh no, you didn't. And then there's an argument. It's like no, I documented it. Not only did I tell you and show you how to do it, but I also left you with a hard copy. Now go.

Tim Brown: 27:50

Yeah, and I'm a huge fan of loom for video tests, uh, for video tutorials. I just first, first day with an executive assistant. Second try, second try, I think after we hung out. I tried to hire one last summer and she was you know anyways, so it didn't work. But then now I'm trying another one, so let's see how it goes. I'm doing way more looms than I did last time.

Ty Cobb Backer: 28:17

I'm doing a lot more like documentation and, yeah, I think that there's um you can't document enough document yeah document document, document document everything, as stupid as it sounds, because you're going to probably forget too and you're going to wish damn, and I wish I wrote that down because I can't remember I had it, but I can't remember what the hell it was.

Tim Brown: 28:38

Oh, yeah, right, write everything back to your your your thing about the like to make good decisions. This is definitely higher level stuff, right. This isn't like your first one to three million stuff, right, but yeah, there'll be people that watch this. So, and as time goes on, you'll need this information. It's good, uh, which is you do and that's time.

Tim Brown: 29:00

I think anyone could use this, but I think for us it's like if you had to do it, you would not make the right decisions a lot of times, like if you had to be the one to implement certain things like that's why. Who, not how, is so important, and I I thought when I first heard that idea, it's Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy. The book is very good who, not how but it's fairly simple mental mindset. I thought it was a little soft when I first heard it, but as time has gone on, it's like actually fundamental right, which is you have to have who's to do the thing so that I find that I make better decisions because I'm not the one that's going to have to do everything, right.

Tim Brown: 29:43

So it's actually like it's. It's like an argument for good leadership that isn't always constantly doing the work, and I used to think I would take pride that I both led and did a bunch more work than everybody else, but I also was the crabby dude, yeah.

Tim Brown: 30:00

And this is like I wasn't a bad guy, I was just a crabby guy and I would hold people back, partly because I would be running ahead and doing the thing that I asked them to do two days ago and I didn't give them a week to finish it. Right, like, so who, not how is like all right, I'm going to make better decisions because I have who's that are capable. I've made good decisions on who, and then they're owning usually a number what's the number? You know what I mean and then tasks too. But, like, even then, ideally, as time goes on, they get to have their own who's too, right? So I just love this and like and I'm telling my marketing manager, by the way, I am so proud of my marketing manager she got 20 leads in a day the other day, one day.

Tim Brown: 30:49

Holy shit, that's crazy, that's um, and I was scared that. I was scared I was gonna have to, like, micromanage everything and be behind the scenes and do this stuff. And she just got 20 leads in a day. And it's not from any crazy big, innovative campaign. It was from being consistent and sharing social proof and case studies and real work and being consistent. That's all. Consistency has been huge and um.

Tim Brown: 31:16

But I also tell her she needs who's right. I'm not just the one, only one that gets who's. I'm like I'm trying to teach her you know how to get people to do things and trying to make sure she has a bigger vision for her career and her role than just be the one to do every little thing. So and that's hard, like when you're really early, but as time goes on you want to be able to allow your people to have who's to. It's just very high and mighty, you know, for a guy who's got a little bit bigger business than an early startup. But at the beginning you just got to think that way, like I, I can set a big goal and I won't be the only one involved. I'm going to get some other really great people involved.

Ty Cobb Backer: 32:06

Otherwise this big goal would be ridiculous. Yeah for sure. No, you're right, and I think that's where a lot of us get stuck. I was stuck in that early stage bootstrap startup roofing company where I felt like I had my my pulse on everything and did everything, and if it took too long, it was like, kind of get out of the way, I can do it better, you know, and I think it's because it's our baby, you know, we, we, we think, you know, nobody can do it any better than us.

Ty Cobb Backer: 32:34

And man, I haven't talked about this for a while. We're like I'm wearing 15 hats and now I'm just mediocre at everything. I can't excel at anything, whether it's personally or professionally, because I'm so stressed out I'm working a hundred hours a week. I'm, I'm selling the jobs, I'm building the jobs, I'm ordering the materials, I'm calling up the subs, I'm calling up the supply house, like all of these things, where it's like, you know, and I think I was thinking so small and I've been on this kick and it's going to be a part of my keynote, but it's almost like I had that mentality, like I can outwork anybody, okay, just to make ends meet. Like I wasn't purpose-driven, right, my purpose was just to make ends meet. But my attitude was is I'll just, I'll outwork everybody. And I think if we think that way, yes, you need that mindset when you get into business for yourself. It's like, yes, you need to work, outwork everybody, you need to be the first one there, the last one to leave, and set the example and set the standard early. I get that, but you need to be driven by purpose, like what is your purpose? Is your purpose to eventually create this framework and be able to pass it off to somebody else? So then they have something to do? Okay, so now you're impacting somebody else. You wrote the framework and then I've noticed over time, like my old frameworks, that I've passed the torch off to other people. They do it so much better than I ever did it Because, one, I was doing 15 jobs.

Ty Cobb Backer: 33:56

I was mediocre at everything. I couldn't excel, I couldn't think high level, I was so far in the weeds and working in the business, okay. Then, when I started to delegate things to people, okay, I found out like one, first and foremost, we started to grow almost exponentially. Like immediately we started to grow the moment I started to delegate tasks to other people and then I realized, like holy shit, that one task that I immediately we started to grow the moment I started to delegate tasks to other people and then I realized, like holy shit, that one task that I was doing actually created a 40 hour a week job. Okay, the scheduler, the person that schedules all the roofing, the siding and the gutter jobs, like that, is like a one man person Like that was me doing that on top of selling the job, on top of the service department. I was still putting on my tool pouch at that time and wondering why I'm screaming grow, grow, grow, go, go, go. And it's like dude, like I can't go anywhere, like I was stuck. Yeah, yeah, you know and that's one thing that I

Tim Brown: 34:52

the whole like rah rah thing only gets you so far. Right like and I I realized that you know too and I think it's also telling my people about this idea too. Right like, because right now my wife is about to have a baby, uh, son. We're about to have a son. I'm so excited. Um, hopefully in a month, thank you so much. We're very excited. And she's like oh, I'm just gonna step out, everything's gonna be fine while I'm gone. I'm like baby, you have no idea how many things you do around here. You have no idea. And like I know there's like an impulse in all of us to then, okay, I'm gonna be gone for two months and everything's gonna be fine because, and then they're gonna like miss me and then when I come back, they're going to be like oh, we realized how much you do, but we have to almost be doing our own little succession planning all the time.

Tim Brown: 35:53

Ideally, in her case, I'm trying to get her to replace some of that. Basically, she runs the office office admin and then there's a bunch of other things. She's also like arap. She's got so many you know how to be like so many jobs and I think when you're a business owner, you don't realize how many jobs you've been doing right, and once you start passing it off, you're usually excuse me. In my case I was like that's all you can do, that's like one-fifth of what I was doing, and that that means I was productive, but it also means I was no wonder. I was frazzled. You know what I mean, because I I literally had five jobs so. But it's also like teaching other people like to kind of do some little bit of self succession.

Tim Brown: 36:41

And we did this recently very positively when our video guy who I love, jack um, moved on to and that was like obviously gut punch because he's super cool and I miss him to this day. Um, he moved on to barstool sports, which is a dream, dream job, but I do aspire to one day hook agency being a dream job as well. I think for some people it is, but I think that he took two weeks to make all the standard operating procedures for his role. And so when the new video guy, axel, just started, now he stands on the shoulders of giants. He actually, he's capable of getting up to speed so much quicker. He's already putting out really cool videos and I'm like super proud of him, and part of that is because he immediately got up to speed with all these SOPsps.

Tim Brown: 37:38

So we all have to think about that, whether we're a business owner or somebody else, like succession planning for ourselves, allowing somebody else to be able to take over if we're gone, and that that makes our lives better as, yeah, professionals, because then we can take a break or like we can go on vacation and not everyone's like blowing us up because we we made a few loom videos or a few sops to allow somebody else to take that part of our like critical part of our job over for a little while. So it's hard to teach people that without saying higher, higher, higher, because I'm not saying that higher slowly, like let's, let's, let's all keep the the boat afloat with profit, but also allowing somebody else to do your job for a little bit. Or when you do bring somebody on, like giving them everything they possibly can use to succeed anyways, the the whole sop thing is like I could talk about that forever because it's obviously like super important.

Ty Cobb Backer: 38:39

Yeah, it really is Document, document everything, and, like I like how you mentioned too, like what if somebody wants to go on vacation and not be bothered? It is so important that somebody else within your office and we do a lot of cross training so that way if somebody does leave, along with the documentation whether it's hard copy or digital copy of the SOP. But pretty much, especially on the admin side of things, there's not many people that don't know how to do everybody else's job. One, because if somebody gets backed up, somebody can jump in and kind of help out and pick up the pieces, but, most importantly, so they can get some time off and spend some time, whether it's a week, two weeks or if they're pregnant and they need to take a furlough for two, three months at a time. And we've done that already where the team is able and capable of pulling together and pulling their weight. Instead of hiring somebody else temporarily, the team has actually stepped in and has filled that position while they're out, so they can spend some time with their know, with their newborn, which is a pretty cool place to be when you can actually offer something like that for somebody and it then hopefully becomes, like you said a dream job for somebody.

Ty Cobb Backer: 39:50

You know what I mean. And and I think that that goes into trust to for both parties, for the coworker and for the entrepreneurs like hopefully they trust the company enough that, like you know, we're having you create this SOP not to necessarily replace you, yeah, but but so you can take some time off, because I've gotten pushback already about that, like everyone's. Like no, I don't want anybody to know how or what it is. I do because now it's it becomes job security and little do they know. When you're thinking like that again, getting back to small thinking, yes, they're actually bottlenecking that department, they're bottlenecking, like, their role. And it's like, if you can convince them like, look, this is that we want you to grow within this company and at some point in time, you should start looking for your replacement so you can actually move up in the company, and that's where our jobs are so important to be.

Ty Cobb Backer: 40:44

The CEO is always trying to figure out ways to create more opportunities for people. How can we bring smarter people into our organization and raise the IQ of our organization? And we? We may already have that IQ here, but we need to unlock it with that individual and help them move into a higher position and then filter somebody else in to replace what it was they were doing. And when you were talking about yourself and your wife and she's got to take time off.

Ty Cobb Backer: 41:11

I think the biggest thing that I've tried to do over the years is always found not always. Up until a couple of years ago, I was always trying to find my replacement right. Especially, it's something that I know I'm not very good at and something that I dislike doing. If I'm not enjoying doing it, I got to get somebody else to do it. Unfortunately, I'm in a position to be able to do that, and even if you're in a smaller company and you're just starting out, if there's something you're not very good at and you know it's holding your company back, you and your family and everybody else around you, then you should probably find somebody else that can do it better I want to also note sometimes it's something you are good at, and I I mean, for instance, this marketing thing.

Tim Brown: 41:51

I love marketing, man, I really love it. I will do it all the time, every day, in bed, for fun you know what I mean before I go to sleep and when I wake up. However, being a ceo is the most important thing I can do with my time like leading people, making good decisions, and I also enjoy that. I love strategic planning. I love making good decisions, especially when we're obviously it's like the best Right, yeah, but I love marketing. But I hide there, you know and I've had coaches tell me that, I've had like peers like it's just because you love it and I know this is tough, this is like I'm saying kind of 201, not one-on 101 leadership.

Tim Brown: 42:40

It's like just because you love it doesn't mean that's all you should be doing. If the next best thing for the business to move forward is for you to do some harder stuff again, I'm not trying to brag, but I'm pretty good at marketing, like we've been marketing a long time, right? Whatever, just because I'm good at it and I like it doesn't mean it's the highest leverage, highest value thing I can do with my time. I'm still going to do some of it because I need that to get the itch scratched. But there's also an element of like you got to do CEO stuff. If you want to be a CEO, you got to be doing CEO stuff. If you want to be a CEO, you gotta be doing CEO stuff, you know. So that's how I feel right now is like making sure yeah.

Ty Cobb Backer: 43:25

And sometimes it actually gets harder, like we think, okay, now we're in a position where we may not have to work so much, but not if you have big, big dreams and goals and aspirations and want to take it to a whole nother level.

Ty Cobb Backer: 43:37

What that means is is there's a whole lot of more uncomfortable shit that you're going to have to learn, because we all know what got us here won't keep us here and won't get us where we want to go. So for me, my experience is there's been a lot of training and skills that I had to learn if I wanted to be an XYZ you know type of of of CEO and manage, you know a thousand people. Okay, which means I I'm I am going to have to let go of some things that I think I'm good at and I think I enjoy. Okay, because obviously I know that there's a lot more smarter people out in the world that can do a lot of these things, and sometimes I get so emotionally attached to things that I allow my emotions to interfere and it doesn't get done as well. Now, if I can delegate it to somebody else that isn't emotionally attached to it, they may be able to deal with that problem better than I could, and I've had to learn that the hard way Go ahead.

Tim Brown: 44:36

I've chosen my successor as the CEO of Hook Agency and I'm pre-planning because he's now the president. He started as the president July 1, which is a big deal for us. I call that exact thing. I call it the sacred cow paradox. I'm emotionally attached to some things I do and I think I'm the best in the world that no one can ever do it. But at the end of the day, it'd be really good if I eventually could pass it off.

Tim Brown: 45:06

And I call it a paradox because, yes, you're always doing that. You should always be trying to get rid of stuff, because your time almost like it'd be like the ideal state, tie in a in a meditation room, all black, everywhere. He's just hovering a little bit and he's like somebody comes to him, yes or no, yes, you know, like that would be the ideal state, like almost for a ceo. Like just pure, pure thinking, like just pure. You know, everyone's like it's down the trenches just to clarify his thinking. But that's not how it ever is in practice, right? We're always doing something, and so the paradox part of it is that you have to zoom back in every once in a while and just do something, and usually there's something every day that you just have to do. So it's like, even though you're fighting back and forth, you're trying to pass everything off, not because you're it's actually harder than just doing it way harder but then every once in a while, you just have to jump back in. So that's why I call it a paradox, because it's never done.

Ty Cobb Backer: 46:07

No, even though you're always doing it. Yeah, it's, it's, it's never. And the thing the hardest part, the hardest, one of the hardest lessons that I've learned is is that I can I can fill the office up with a lot of smart people, but if they don't have the right leadership and direction, it's still it, it doesn't matter. Do you know what I mean? Now I need to learn how to lead in a different way. I need to learn how to lead leaders. Now, you know, it's one thing to have just like four or five roofers that I'm leading on a roof, right, but when you get in the, you know the, the realm of, you know multi-aid figures and you got a lot of smart people in the room like you got to handle them differently and you have to lead them differently. You have to set different expectations, different goals, because now, when we talk about like yeah, my dreams are going to be big enough for their dream to fit in, like that's real shit, because they have goals, dreams and aspirations and that, that, that there was probably the hardest, because I was in a position where it was like I had all these smart people, like all these great people, high motivated, intelligent people from other industries that were coming into our industry, whether it was the car industry, the tech industry, roofing industry but I had to learn how to lead them differently, right? Which, then, getting back to my earlier point, was, is that there was some things that I I didn't know how to do. I had to educate myself, okay, so now it was like like going back to school again not necessarily going back to school, but I had to learn how to actually become a CEO of people that make six figures. You know what I mean. So I don't know, it was just. It was.

Ty Cobb Backer: 47:48

It was a hard learning curve for me, because I thought, if I just got all the right people to work, you know, surround yourself with smart people, cause we hear that, well, okay, I did, but they're not doing anything, they're not accomplishing anything, our revenue is the same, what the hell is going on? Well, that doesn't mean my job is over just because I've hired all these really smart people, right that that know how I thought, knew how to do things. I had to learn how to actually lead them differently, not, not, I'm not saying like differently in terms of like I have to treat them differently, like I do everybody else, but, but a lot of times their goals and dreams and aspirations are a lot different than somebody that I don't know. I don't want to even want to use an example here, cause I don't know. I don't even want to use an example here because I don't want to offend anybody but.

Ty Cobb Backer: 48:30

I just I learned that I had to lead differently. I guess the point that I'm trying to make is but also giving enough. I had to create enough room for them to grow.

Tim Brown: 48:44

I really appreciate when you share this stuff, some of your anecdotes, like you're a little bit further along in this entrepreneurial journey than me and sometimes I don't even understand exactly what you're saying when you say it, and then later, like I always bring back your references because I'm like this guy, because then we grow and then I have some of the problems you had a while ago. You know what I mean. Like I love stuff like that. What I will say there is a certain amount, like I just want to do some encouragement for people out there. Once you pass a certain amount. This is what I believe. Tell me if you think this is wrong, but I think, like, let's say, you go to 7 million or something like that, I believe the sky is the limit for you.

Tim Brown: 49:25

I believe and I know there's big challenges, but if you were able to get someone through some of those challenges, I believe you can go. You just have to have a much bigger vision and you have to like almost require that of yourself and you have to expect to win. So I think it's like I heard somebody the other day say I don't partner with anyone, that I don't, that doesn't expect to win in a huge way. They're like a private equity guy, but I like him. You know there's some good ones, some bad ones, and he was like I don't partner with anybody that isn't already expecting to do like 20, 30 million, and I'm like you know, that's a big statement, that's kind of a crazy thing. But what are do you expect to win and like and like if you've already gone to a certain level? You got this dude or ma'am. You got this because there's so much opportunity and, yes, you've been through a bunch of challenges, but I believe in you and I think it's going to be really cool and we're going to the moon, baby.

Tim Brown: 50:25

We're going to the moon, let's go I think some people don't have that trust in themselves, but I see everyone that gets to a certain level could go you know, what.

Ty Cobb Backer: 50:35

I mean.

Tim Brown: 50:35

Like there's people, there's people at insane levels that you wouldn't think right, yes, for sure you. You see a leader every once in a while and you're like how did he do that? You know what I mean. Like so remember, that could be you. Why not you? Yeah, why not you?

Ty Cobb Backer: 50:52

for sure, for sure, no, and and I like that analogy but also be ready, if you're at seven million dollars and and you want to grow to, you know eight figures. Just know what got you there isn't going to get you there, okay. And again, getting to, it's one thing. To you know cause, really, if you think about it, okay, so if you're doing $7 million, that means you probably have seven to nine sales reps right, and you've probably been managing your sales reps yourself. And then, along with an administrative help, you probably have someone that that is doing your accounting and you probably have somebody that is answering the phones. Okay, if you're kind of like a paper contractor that doesn't actually have, like window installers, gutter installers Okay, so you probably have 12 people that work for you. If you're doing about $7 million, I mean you can do that, okay, it's very possible. So now, if you want to reach and exceed 10, 15, you know, whatever it is $20 million, your mindset has to completely change.

Tim Brown: 51:57

Yeah.

Ty Cobb Backer: 51:59

Completely change to go. Yes, tell you more.

Tim Brown: 52:04

Yeah, now you talk to me about what mindset has to flip Like. What are the biggest levers to pull here?

Ty Cobb Backer: 52:10

Well, now you really got to think about future stuff, and we've talked about this before. You have to think about preparing the company, because it's not just showing up every day and now I'm managing nine sales reps. Okay, now I need to find myself a replacement. I have to trust somebody else to do a good enough job for, like, in place of me, to manage nine sales reps. So I have to coach. I have to coach my next sales manager, and just because he was my top sales rep doesn't necessarily mean he's going to make the best sales manager, and that's a decision. Again, I got to make a decision. I got to change my mindset because most people are going to think my top performer is going to be my best sales manager, and that's a decision. Again, I got to make a decision. I got to change my mindset because most people are going to think my top performer is going to be my best sales manager.

Tim Brown: 52:54

No bueno, that necessarily might not be your homie.

Ty Cobb Backer: 52:58

Yeah, might not be, Right.

Ty Cobb Backer: 53:01

So now you got to. Now you got to remove emotion from your thinking, cause I love this guy and he should be the manager. He should, well, that doesn't necessarily mean he's going to be the right fit. He's not the one to keep the team motivated. He's not the guy that's going to work seven days a week and take you know, because salespeople are like herding cats at times, right, and it's just like going from a sales manager mentality to a salesperson.

Ty Cobb Backer: 53:24

To a sales manager, how he fed his family was completely different. He was. He was paid solely based upon the jobs that he sold. Okay, now you're moving him into a position of a sales manager. Now he's getting paid based upon his team's performance. Can you see the mindset shift? And it's no different. For an entrepreneur, now, how I'm eating is something totally different. An entrepreneur, now, how I'm eating is something totally different. Now I have to rely on nine sales reps in order for me to eat. And do I have to like Gina Wickman? Does he have the GWC? Does he get it? Does he want it? Does he have the capabilities of doing that? Now he's got to all nine sales reps in order for him to exceed what he got paid last year. That is two separate mindset, and it's no different for me If I was the sales manager of these nine people.

Ty Cobb Backer: 54:13

Now I need to rely on these nine people to feed the administrative help, the lady that's answering the phone, the, the, you know, pay all my bills and all these things. So now I need to think about higher level stuff. Okay, what higher level stuff, when I'm so used to showing up at the office and waiting for the nine people to show up and I could tell them what to do every day, and I'm no longer doing that. So what am I going to do? Just sit in my office all day and twiddle my thumbs? No, I need to start thinking about some more high level shit.

Ty Cobb Backer: 54:45

Now. How can I turn this into $18 million? Now we're doing $9 million. I got nine sales reps. How am I going to do $18 million? Okay. So now I need to start thinking about creating a recruiting funnel. Okay, don't know much about that, but I don't have anybody here that can do that for me. So now I guess I got to educate myself on how to recruit people. Right, some people would probably just pick up a phone, hire or just start running ads on Indeed, no, that's okay. But who's going to interview them? Who's going to vet them? Who's going to hire? Slow and let go quickly, right? So now my mindset shifted from managing nine people to actually trying to recruit nine more people. Does that make sense?

Tim Brown: 55:30

Yeah, are you willing to share how many people are in your business? I think, as of today, like probably 78 of us nice, very cool, yeah, and that includes, like you have a lot of like installers and stuff working for you, et cetera.

Ty Cobb Backer: 55:49

Yeah, we have in-house gutter crews, window crew, yeah, service a whole complete service department with a fleet of people over there. Administrative help, sales reps.

Tim Brown: 55:59

Yeah, we're like 36, I think, as of today, something like that. Like we've got a recruit, like we've got a full-time like hr recruiter person, we, we, we teamed, we kind of like combined it to be like talent development and recruiting so that when she's not as when we're not hiring as much she still has a job. You know, because they're down years, right, there's down times and it's like so now, such, then she can like work on the curriculum for the team. So we're trying to like get her to do that and now she's got she's getting a little help as well on that. So it's a lot of work to find the right people and it's like that's another job we did originally thinking it's not a full-time job. I, every once in a while I just need to hire somebody, but then it eventually becomes that there's a lot of things entrepreneurs do that we don't really fully clock how many jobs we're doing.

Ty Cobb Backer: 57:00

Absolutely Still today. I do probably too many jobs, but that's okay. I love where I'm at, I love the position I'm in and I really feel like my team still really needs me.

Ty Cobb Backer: 57:09

so I still show up every day and that's a cool place to be because and I'm grateful that I don't have to do this by myself anymore- oh and I'm great, I'm grateful that we've created an atmosphere and an organization that people actually want to aspire to be like and have a company that people and culture that people want to be a part of. You know, and we've we I feel like we've kind of set the standard, especially when it comes to you know, um, how we treat homeowners, how we market our brand. We don't shit talk other companies. We, we um, um, just we were a team, like we can talk shit on each other, but don't talk shit on us, we'll kick your ass, kind of mentality.

Ty Cobb Backer: 57:49

You know, it's almost like a cult, like culture that we've created around here, and a lot of that goes back to your book. We've become what I think, now that you've labeled it a hometown hero, and that's where we all kind of get the rally together and see how many pounds of food that we can generate and and you know how many, how many turkeys we can deep fry and all that stuff. And it's like that's where the camaraderie, the true camaraderie and fellowship and the culture come into play. It's not even us being behind the desk every day with our earbuds in and not socializing with each other, like that's not necessarily where the culture gets built. It actually gets built outside of the office, out in the streets, impacting our community, and then we bring that back into the office.

Tim Brown: 58:39

Yeah, I absolutely agree. I think there's so many people in this book and it wasn't the plan when I started writing this. I mean, I definitely had community involvement as part of the plan, but so many people were recommending or doing charitable things that that's kind of it became a big theme of this book, charitable stuff, and so, like my team has been, you know, trying to do this stuff a little bit more. We're putting in a monthly recurring volunteering thing and five people are doing the hometown hero challenge today. If they finish the five minutes, we're giving the 500. You know they gotta finish the five minutes, though. You gotta finish the five minute cold plunge. You finish the five minute cold plunge, then we give the 500 to the charity of their choice. But anyways, it's uh. I felt very challenged because I don't think we've been doing as much of that as we. We did a little bit more when we were earlier. We like had less stuff to do, so I'd be like we were pretty good at some of this. But we've been giving, we haven't been volunteering. I think volunteering is kind of the hard part sometimes yeah, no doubt it's easy to give yeah you know, but what the hard part is giving your time yeah

Ty Cobb Backer: 59:56

yeah, giving, giving monetarily is easy I think not just anybody can do that, but but the hard part is giving somebody your actual time, an individual or a group of people. That's where, that's where the true meaning of sharing you know and giving come from. I think is is your time. It comes from your time and the time that you put into you know helping somebody. So, anyhow, before we get off here, so, who is your hometown hero? Do you have a hometown hero in your life?

Tim Brown: 1:00:23

Oh yeah, man, so I share that. In this book it's actually my mom, uh, and my mom recently passed away and hundreds and hundreds of people were at her funeral and what I kind of clocked is that and it's the beginning chapter, and then the end chapter is about her. I would go with her to these. She cleaned houses when I was growing up and she didn't think of it as lowly the work. She prayed over the house and she would clean toilets and I was in the living room watching woody woodpecker and looking down at these beautiful lakes, because they're nice homes, right, they were cleaning and kind of like why does mom care so much?

Tim Brown: 1:01:03

why does mom stop everybody? She meets in the grocery store and like, try to pray over them. What is mom? You know she she had been um working overnight at a perkins. She had four sons, so this job was like a level up right, this is the next level, uh. And so she didn't think of his lowly work and she really cared about every single person that she did. She worked on their home. You know, and I think at our best in our job, whatever our job is that we don't think of it as lowly work. We think of it as service to people and we really care about them and we we actually like try to live our lives in such a way that each person that we come across is important, and I think my mom exemplifies that for me. So my mom is my hometown hero.

Ty Cobb Backer: 1:01:52

Right on. Good, good, good. And my condolences. I know that's not easy. I still talk about it.

Tim Brown: 1:01:58

Thank you, brother. No, I mean like yeah comes and goes. Yeah, I get it.

Ty Cobb Backer: 1:02:02

I get it. I get it. Usually depends upon the time of year for me, but I got one more question for you, because I know you got a hard stop here. Um, what's one thing most people don't know about you that helped shape this book?

Tim Brown: 1:02:19

huge thing is the I mean, I didn't put the story in here but, like the last year, trying to figure out how to like take some time off of work, my thursdays off ended up allowing me to be there with my mom when she passed, and I also, um, you know the things you taught me about spending an hour meditate I meditate during my you read and journal and stuff like that. I've included that as well. Um, and some of these things that like feel like soft, like I take Thursdays off and all that that feels soft to probably some entrepreneurs, but like a lot of it has shaped my intentionality around my business to stop rushing from thing to thing and to start being more, like, higher level with the things I'm doing, my time, including writing this book, cause I think it allowed me to like some of this freedom. A little bit more space in my head allowed me to think more strategically about this stuff. I think taking time off is actually really important for your business. Is the insight.

Ty Cobb Backer: 1:03:26

Yeah, no, I love that I've. Yes, that is definitely something hard for most of us entrepreneurs to take a little bit of time to step back and reflect on some things and be a better human being, so we can come back and perform better for our team. No, that's good. That's, that's a good thing, man. This has been such a powerful conversation, man, and if if anyone is out there trying to build a brand, grow the business and actually want to make a difference in your community, this episode should be on repeat. Be sure to grab a copy of Tim's new book, how to Become a Hometown Hero. It's not just a marketing guide, it's a blueprint for becoming the kind of leader your town remembers and respects. Big thanks to Tim for joining us today and, as always, if you got value from this episode, share it, tag it, leave us a review. That's how we keep bringing your conversations that matter. Until next time, this is behind the tool belt, where we build more than just businesses. We build legacies. Thank you for joining us.

Tim Brown: 1:04:29

August 1st, by the way, this is out August 1st hometownherobookcom. The print version and the audio book is really good. So, if you want to, the audio book has the voices of the people in at the end of each chapter. It's under 10 hours it's it is long but it's really good and it's got the it's. I tightened up all these conversations to be like the 10 15 minutes, the best 10 15 minutes with on that particular topic, with conversations with people like john scenic, tommy mellow, roger wakefield, martin pettigrew, ty cobb, backer on the on the front of the book, by the way. I hope you saw that you are. You are on the front of the book oh nice and that's our hat, that's our logo and it's best, that's awesome.

Tim Brown: 1:05:17

Best seller on amazon. We thank you everyone for your help. If you, if you did that that day when we got 430 sold and um, yeah, thanks for everyone for the support. It's been a fun experience, man. It's been crazy. A lot of roofing people like supported us and making this thing pop and just appreciate everyone's help. I know I have been hammering the airwaves. That's what you gotta do. Gotta take more action than uh, so much action that failure would be ridiculous no good stuff.

Ty Cobb Backer: 1:05:47

good stuff, man. I appreciate you. Thank you for being my friend. I love our conversations and keep doing what you do, man. You're making our industry a better place, man, by you just being here, so thank you for that.

Tim Brown: 1:05:59

Thank you, brother, appreciate you, you got it All right, everybody.

Ty Cobb Backer: 1:06:04

Have a great day. We'll talk to you next week for episode 293 of Beyond the